Rick Schwartz Threatens a daily tweet against Estibot and Go\Daddy - What do you think?

[Robbie]

Rick Schwartz aka the Domain King, tweeted the below out on Wednesday and then retweeted this on Thursday with the threat he might retweet daily...

#Domainers that give these FAKE estimate tools any credibility are IDIOTS!! Don't support this CRAP! These folks
@estibotcom
@Godaddy
are your ENEMY!! These companies are costing you your LIVELIHOODS!! DEMAND THEIR REMOVAL!! Don't be fools any longer! #Domains #DomainNames

So what do you think? Are Estibot and GoDaddy GoValue appraisals a threat to the domain name industry?

As Rick would put it "letting them steal dollars out your pocket" with many end-user quoting these prices as the values of the domain name.

Rick goes on to show in a later tweet the Estibot appraisal of GoBet.com of $7,100 USD, however as we know Rick sold GoBet.com for $850,000 USD.

What do you think?

 

[Debasis]

He said the truth.Fake estimation tools.

 

[Kingslayer]

I agree with him, i've never understood why people gave much credibility to Estibot valuation, the clue is in the name Estibot.

I do look at the site i must admit, but It's something that as never really put me off if i feel I'm buying a great domain but estibot valuation is low.

You only have to look at fantastic domains like immersive/AugmentedReality dot com - according to Estibot both of them together are worth $22k but most people here know these are 6 (potentially 7) figure assets.

 

[Way3]

Always found it ridiculous that anyone puts any credibility into these at all. At the end of the day a tool is just a ... tool.

3 years ago bitcoin .com would have shown little value relative to its effect on the global financial system. Now it shows at 1 mil+ - but the flaw in the system is they only reflect value after the fact. No predictive ability at all really.

 

[biggie]

Hi

it's not like Rick has been saying something new
but i think, he saw what i been saying for years and because he got what he got...
then he can do, what he does.

below are a few of my past posts on the subject

Domain Pricing - NamePros
the quote below is from thread above in 2013

now let me ask you this


how much respect do you have for a trash can?

and if you had two trash cans, which would be the best or your favorite?

maybe the one closest to you or the one with the largest opening so you can pretend it's a basketball hoop?

point is, you'd be playing a game with yourself by throwing trash in the trash cans and remember, games are for entertainment

and so are automated appraisal tools.


you have to understand that domains were being sold long before these tools hit as "services", and that they have basically been constructed for newbies to play with, after paying a subscription or upgrade fee.

an "appraised" value for domains can basically be the cost of acquisition, plus renewal fee's paid to date, plus any traffic/revenue statistics that will enhance value, plus any additional dollar amount you think the domain can sell for because of demand, trend, rareness, etc, or what it's worth to "you" to replace it in your portfolio.

not an exact science, but there are many factors to consider for the experienced seller.

imo....

and below are other comments if you care to read.

Domain Evaluations - NamePros

Are all domain valuation sites a joke !? | Page 2 - NamePros

New Bulk Domain Name Valuation Tool - NamePros

As a buyer on a scale of 0 to 10 how important is the value assigned by an automated appraisal | Page 2 - NamePros

GoDaddy Gives Big Bump To 4L .com Domain Values | Page 2 - NamePros


imo....

 

[RogueWriter]

Always found it ridiculous that anyone puts any credibility into these at all. At the end of the day a tool is just a ... tool.

3 years ago bitcoin .com would have shown little value relative to its effect on the global financial system. Now it shows at 1 mil+ - but the flaw in the system is they only reflect value after the fact. No predictive ability at all really.

Agree. I use estibot as a quick stat generator when I am researching a niche, or if I'm going to throw out free to register domains here in a thread. A tool is a tool, but you use it for the right purpose.

 

[koolishman]

If you believe in inherent value of your domain, and are willing to wait years and years, then you will get good value when right buyer comes along.

If you are looking for immediate cashflow and flipping, then these valuations will be used in transaction as a bargaining point.

 

[Mister Funsky]

So what do you think? Are Estibot and GoDaddy GoValue appraisals a threat to the domain name industry?

They (most automated appraisal bots) are a flippers and/or buyers best friend. The only one that comes close to proper estimations is nameworth. Even that one can be a little low sometimes. Est/Ddy bots are generally not the worst out there...there are some really crappy sites run by code school dropouts that value names at 8.95 regularly.

 

[Business Brands]

I agree with Richard on this topic. I think longterm Estibot and GoMaddy will attract a lawsuit for damages, may be even a class action.

 

[Alop]

Hi

it's not like Rick has been saying something new
but i think, he saw what i been saying for years and because he got what he got...
then he can do, what he does.

below are a few of my past posts on the subject

Domain Pricing - NamePros
the quote below is from thread above in 2013



and below are other comments if you care to read.

Domain Evaluations - NamePros

Are all domain valuation sites a joke !? | Page 2 - NamePros

New Bulk Domain Name Valuation Tool - NamePros

As a buyer on a scale of 0 to 10 how important is the value assigned by an automated appraisal | Page 2 - NamePros

GoDaddy Gives Big Bump To 4L .com Domain Values | Page 2 - NamePros


imo....

Preach biggie :d

 

[RogueWriter]

Related, but unrelated.....

Back in the sixties and early seventies, when you wanted to say a product was junk, you would say, "It was probably made in Japan". It is just the way it was, a lot of the stuff coming from Japan was cheap, poorly made, and would not last. It felt like they were just after a fast buck.

Thing is, in the seventies, companies in Japan got better. It took years, but they shed their sixties image and started dominating not based on quantity, but on quality. Innovation, retooling, setting standards for manufacturing that the USA had to start matching. Some businesses failed. Others learned from those failures and grew dominant. Made in Japan became a compliment. So much so that people started worrying about Japan taking over American industry, or driving them out of business.

Same thing will happen with these tools. It will take time, years, but they won't go away; they will get better. They may never rise to the level that a Rick wants, but I am guessing that several years from now they will be more accurate, more predictive, more adaptive to a changing environment.

 

[Reddstagg]

I use a much more reliable set of tools. I just look at the values that long experienced domainers have on their assets, then I laugh and knock at least 2 zeros off the ends of the value. That is much more realistic.

Not one single 'Expert' has come up with a system that is at least as good as the two aforementioned. It is what we have. It is what we should use...for guidance purposes only. Then we can use our natural intelligence. Not one single person will pay my prices if they are too high. They will only pay what they want to pay. It is not even a question of what they can afford to pay. It is what they choose to pay on that particular day.

Now, here's a challenge for who ever want to accept it. This includes top tier domainers, scientists, mathematicians, computer experts and just about anyone in between. Come up with a mathematical formula that can accurately predict the price of domain names today, tomorrow and long into the future. Maybe then, will you be able to tell me the price of gold and bitcoin on 12th June 2024. Not so easy is it.

When we try to sell a name to an end user they are more than likely going to just type the name into Godaddy. Most of the world has probably heard of them if not Estibot. This will probably frighten them as it has four figures. They thought they could get names for like ten bucks. Use it to enhance your selling experience and diversify you techniques as and when required to do so.

I will wait for the mathematical solutions to come flooding in. I may have a long wait.

When you are at the top of the pyramid it is easy to forget about the people at the bottom as you stand at the apex and aim your piss into the wind. Sometimes saying something just because you can is of little consequence to anyone else.

Sometime, it is better to just count your money and say nothing at all.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[AEProgram]

I think a good idea would be a list of 100 names that show what the valuation was vs what the final sales price was. Many end users don't buy a name because the estimate said a much lower price. I personally lost a very good sale to this.

 

[oldtimer]

The problem with the automated appraisals that are currently being offered is that they just use old technology.

These old appraisal bots are just plain stupid and even though they use certain scripts that might be able to put some factors in to consideration, but they still don't have a full understanding of the keywords contained in the domain and the way that those keywords relate to each other and to the extension and they have no idea about the inherent value that the domain might have based on the size and the scope of the market that those keywords are targeting not to mention the recognition and prestige that they can create for the end user within that market.

The solution is to go passed the old appraisal bots and scripts and invest in a system that uses Artificial Intelligence.

Through machine learning an AI can become as knowledgeable about domain names as the most experienced domainers and brokers that we have in this Industry. As the matter of fact as the AI's knowledge grows it can surpass the collective knowhow that exists amongst all experienced domainers and brokers.

So it's time for the domain Industry to keep up with the times and invest in AI

Thinking ahead I did hand registered:

AiAppraisals.com


I also like to see the day that AI can help with domain sales,

When a CEO tells the AI to find him or her a certain domain that perhaps matches one that you have, your AI will instantly become aware of that request and will let them know about your domain. (After all AI's are going to be in constant communications with each other through their own network.)

IMO

 

[Reddstagg]

The problem with the automated appraisals that are currently being offered is that they just use old technology.

These old appraisal bots are just plain stupid and even though they use certain scripts that might be able to put some factors in to consideration, but they still don't have a full understanding of the keywords contained in the domain and the way that those keywords relate to each other and to the extension and they have no idea about the inherent value that the domain might have based on the size and the scope of the market that those keywords are targeting not to mention the recognition and prestige that they can create for the end user within that market.

The solution is to go passed the old appraisal bots and scripts and invest in a system that uses Artificial Intelligence.

Through machine learning an AI can become as knowledgeable about domain names as the most experienced domainers and brokers that we have in this Industry. As the matter of fact as the AI's knowledge grows it can surpass the collective knowhow that exists amongst all experienced domainers and brokers.

So it's time for the domain Industry to keep up with the times and invest in AI

Thinking ahead I did hand registered:

AiAppraisals.com

IMO

I'm only two years into my life sentence so I don't know what the appraisal systems were like before. Maybe someone could confirm with a certain level of experience whether they were more reliable when they started. In my limited opinion I think things changed from when the industry went from the simple notion of just registering a domain name and selling it to an end-user to being purely another commodity to be traded. How could any system not designed to figure this out actually be 100% accurate. I may be reasonably new but even I figured out from an early point that the system was not perfect. I guess nothing other than the top 1% of humans can offer anything close to a fool proof system, even if it exists at all.

There are too many unquantifiable parameters which can affect the same one thing in the past and in the future and only when the day arrives that a trillion, trillion dollar system exists can we have total confidence in any artificial intelligence.

Even the worlds most expensive stamp can be worth nothing in one day. When it is used for postage lol.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Compassion]

Estibot and the like are just tools, one model to look at domains.

Yes they are not helpful for us to depend on, as they are not reliable.

Sometimes a xx,xxx name shows as xxx and vice versa



It's all about the tool and how to use it.


The master craftsman knows which tools to use and when.

 

[johnn]

It's a marketing tool for them to lure new users to buy crap names.
GD don't care as long as they make money.

 

[itssri]

Half of the buying request threads here quote 5% or 10% of "GoDaddy appraisal," and that too if it was over $5K, and "nn" number of extensions taken to top it.

Estibot clearly states that their automated appraisal is "unbiased, statistically derived" and offer a manual appraisal too for the more discerning.

The real worth of a domain is only as deep as a buyer's pocket, and how emotionally motivated they are to dive in.

 

[tomcarl]

I respect Rick Schwartz...a lot. But I must say for domains valued under $5K, the GoDaddy domain appraisal tool actually helps close deals since it provides a tangible number backed by a well-known, trusted brand to help close a deal. For portfolio holders in his position, who got in early and have monster names and the balls to turn down big dumbers (lol), maybe not so, but for everyone else, yeah.

 

[Compassion]

Half of the buying request threads here quote 5% or 10% of "GoDaddy appraisal," and that too if it was over $5K, and "nn" number of extensions taken to top it.

Estibot clearly states that their automated appraisal is "unbiased, statistically derived" and offer a manual appraisal too for the more discerning.

The real worth of a domain is only as deep as a buyer's pocket, and how emotionally motivated they are to dive in.

Yes

There are liquid components and stores of wealth components as well.

 

[biggie]

Hi

They may never rise to the level that a Rick wants, but I am guessing that several years from now they will be more accurate, more predictive, more adaptive to a changing environment.

years from now, the newbies will be just as naive' then as many are now
and that, along with others who promote it, will make it "seem" like they are more of all the things you said.

but in reality, users, will be less.
less inclined to use their own minds and perform hands-on research, and more inclined to rely on the easiest methods that are served before them..

Come up with a mathematical formula that can accurately predict the price of domain names today, tomorrow and long into the future.

Hi
here is my formula

an "appraised" value for domains can basically be the cost of acquisition, plus renewal fee's paid to date, plus any traffic/revenue statistics that will enhance value, plus any additional dollar amount you think the domain can sell for because of demand, trend, rareness, etc, or what it's worth to "you" to replace it in your portfolio.

not an exact science, but there are many factors to consider for the experienced seller.

When you are at the top of the pyramid it is easy to forget about the people at the bottom as you stand at the apex and aim your piss into the wind. Sometimes saying something just because you can is of little consequence to anyone else.

Sometime, it is better to just count your money and say nothing at all.

Hi

it's funny,
but when you looking at that apex,
admiring those at the peak of the pyramid
the people on it, the rising stars'
gasping at the big dollars they making
seeing it as the goal in achievement/growth process

then, suddenly when they say some one can't swallow
P, starts to rain down from the heavens.

i guess in those conditions, one should keep their mouth closed and say nothing at all.

just saying....

imo...

 

[ecomslice]

Two pathetic purposes in life clashing with eachother, no surprise, and I agree with both sides, I am just another third input of zero purpose on this matter.

 

[Reddstagg]

Hi



years from now, the newbies will be just as naive' then as many are now
and that, along with others who promote it, will make it "seem" like they are more of all the things you said.

but in reality, users, will be less.
less inclined to use their own minds and perform hands-on research, and more inclined to rely on the easiest methods that are served before them..



Hi
here is my formula




Hi

it's funny,
but when you looking at that apex,
admiring those at the peak of the pyramid
the people on it, the rising stars'
gasping at the big dollars they making
seeing it as the goal in achievement/growth process

then, suddenly when they say some one can't swallow
P, starts to rain down from the heavens.

i guess in those conditions, one should keep their mouth closed and say nothing at all.

just saying....

imo...

Au contraire,

I'm the little old grey fella beavering away building his own pyramid. I'll ask you all (well, most of you) to join me when it is complete.

I don't even use Twitter or LinkedIn so I must truly be screwed. How will I ever make money as a domainer?

Maybe it is just the thrill of the chase.

I'm at the bottom on the ground admiring the hustlers who started with nothing and are now outselling their privileged forbears who were lucky enough to get in early doors. I wonder how many would fare today starting again with nothing but a few quid in their back pocket.

It is like discussing why apples are better than oranges. One is orange so it must be better lol.

I'm presuming that everyone knows that my question was rhetorical and their truly cannot be an answer.

I will come back when my race is run and we can compare figures.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[-AR-]

He is right but I think but what can you do!? These tools harm the industry as buyers with little experience believe in them and they take that as a bases to negotiate on the price of a domain. I mean I have noticed that godaddy uses sales data that is many years old as well as reseller pricing data which is not relevant but we are not organised enough to get them removed. We can start by not using them as a first step maybe.

 

[sbweb]

Rick's perspective is always that of a millionaire. He can afford to wait years to get offers on his premium domains. The buyers come to him. When you own premium .coms, you don't need to use these appraisal tools. You ask for the price you want.

He doesn't understand the situation that most domainers are in.

For most domainers who own low to mid value domains, these tools can be helpful. I mean use it to your advantage if it helps bring up the price. If it doesn't help you, don't even mention it. I personally check godaddy appraisal tool for the comparable sales. I don't use it as a basis for how I price my domains.