This is How I lost my Domain Name at Epik.com

[Fadi H]

Hello everyone,

I've been closing my eyes on many things that I didn't like on Epik.com Registrar. But today is the final day and I'm transferring all my domains from there for a Never comeback.

So what happened is that I had a .CO domain hosted at Epik, Which Expired on December 11th 2021. I did not renew it or transfer it as I've been busy and thought I still have time as I know that .CO domains have a 40 day grace period and that's by the registry. And during that grace period domains are transferable and renewable.

Yesterday I logged in to my account and didn't find the domain, So I clicked the blue button and the support agent said that they will look into the matter and reach back to me later.

Today I received the following response :

"Hello Fadi,

The domain expired on December 11, 2021 and the grace renewal period is 15 days which means that the last day that you have to renew your domain was on December 26, 2021. Since renewal did not take place, and someone had a backorder on your domain, the backorder was fulfilled.

We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back but you might need to provide your best offer so we can send it to our sales team.

Looking forward hearing from you. "

So I clicked back the blue button questioning about that backorder story and I got the following response :

"Thank you for patiently waiting. I have confirmed with our tech team that domain renewals of 40 day grace period is only applicable for domains without back order. You will only get 15 day grace period if there is a backorder for your domain."

But in fact if you visit Epik.com You will not find this backorder story anywhere on the site.

They referred to this link which doesn't help :

https://www.epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

I'm not satisfied with their answers at all and this is the first time I hear of this 15 day back-order story and it's not even mentioned anywhere on the site.

You can see it clearly "After the discretionary grace period the customer's domain is deleted from their account. And deleted domains may be recoverable for up to a total of 69 days after the expiration date.

Where is the 15 day backorder story?

Your opinions matter, Do you think what they did is right?

 

[DN Playbook]

What's interesting is how each register differs in policy. Dynadot auctions them off too but when the domain is won they contact the person who let it expire and give them 3 days to renew, but epik just gives them to new buyer. The real thing that makes me wonder is why you didn't get a notice about a backorder but you surely got tons of emails saying to renew

This is my beef with registrars. They should send you notifications on every activity on your domain as long as it is recoverable. To give you every opportunity if there is a change of mind. Many domainers renew on a case per case basis to test domains. However, once expired your domain can go into active auction or be on backorder and you will never know about it, so you can't even bid on your own expired domain. The first registrar to make such notifications and opportunities to the original registrant will definitely differentiate and standout from the pack.

 

[Fadi H]

Thanks. That sounds a lot to me like they're blatantly lying. They warehoused the domain and are trying to sell it back to you. No third party involved.

I always try to clean my intention to people, But I also had different possibilities and scenarios running through my mind. The thing is that you can't talk about everything when details are not enough.

Thanks for your input.

 

[branding]

I always try to clean my intention to people, But I also had different possibilities and scenarios running through my mind. The thing is that you can't talk about everything when details are not enough.

Thanks for your input.

Well, just look at the historical Whois changes. That should give you an idea about the fictional backorder.

They warehoused it. 100%.

 

[branding]

I may want to add, they've got their fine print covered. It's their right, we all deal with shady registrars at times, it's part of this business.

Point is, when you do, never let your domains expire. There are registrars allowing no grace period at all.

Edit: and obviously the poor customer service. You reached out and and were given a BS story.

The domain isn't on NL, still accepting offers to be accepted by the owner, Epik.

 

[Fadi H]

Well, just look at the historical Whois changes. That should give you an idea about the fictional backorder.

They warehoused it. 100%.

I was already looking up Domain IQ. But you can't talk about something if you are not sure. And now we have the internal backorder.

 

[FolioTeam]

After the discretionary grace period the customer’s domain is deleted from their account. In most cases, deleted domains may be recoverable for up to a total of 69 days after the expiration date. In the case, where the domain are still eligible to be recovered a restoration fee is assessed."

This mainly applies to .com. Other extensions' expiry process may differ.

 

[branding]

I was already looking up Domain IQ. But you can't talk about something if you are not sure. And now we have the internal backorder.

Yes we can. With the publicly available whois change records they cannot have fulfilled any backorder after the domain expired. It's not rocket science and they know it.

 

[branding]

I've saved a screen btw in case they want to feed us more BS.

 

[Fadi H]

Yes we can. With the publicly available whois change records they cannot have fulfilled any backorder after the domain expired. It's not rocket science and they know it.

Trust me I was already looking this up. You just went fast on this. But I appreciate your help and input. Thanks.

 

[branding]

Trust me I was already looking this up. You just went fast on this. But I appreciate your input.

Thanks. Want to clarify, by internal backorder they mean they take possession of the domains and try to sell it themselves. They shouldn't make mention of there being a backorder at all as that's merely trying to obfuscate the facts.

I find it strange they won't just be transparent about that, that's why I engaged/looked into it.

 

[Fadi H]

by internal backorder they mean they take possession of the domains and try to sell it themselves.

And I was the first potential buyer, Haha. Even if the internal backorder wasn't mentioned by then.

 

[branding]

And I was the first potential buyer, Haha. Even if the internal backorder wasn't mentioned by then.

Lol. And having the audacity to call this thuggery and virtue signalling by sending proceeds to a good cause.

Btw, even if a customer is a pain in the ass you should never deny them services you provide to others. Can't mix business with emotion, business 101. Or.... Turn the other cheek.... Which would hopefully mean something to the one its directed at.

 

[Fadi H]

This mainly applies to .com. Other extensions' expiry process may differ.

You didn't go over the thread else you'd have found your answer.

The support already confirmed that if a backorder is placed, That's 15 days. And if not, Then it can go up to 40 days.

 

[branding]

You didn't go over the thread else you'd have found your answer.

The support already confirmed that if a backorder is placed, That's 15 days. And if not, Then it can go up to 40 days.

Agreed. Still something to take into consideration, for those dealing with gTLDS/ccTLDS. Some just don't allow a grace period at all, like .eu. you will need to renew before expiration or it'll enter quarantine and needs to be recovered costing you additional fees.

Beyond the scope of this thread I think, at the same time, good opportunity to make people aware the lifecycle of a domain isn't always like you'd expect it to be when you're accustomed to dealing with .coms.

 

[bmugford]

Thanks. That sounds a lot to me like they're blatantly lying. They warehoused the domain and are trying to sell it back to you. No third party involved.

It sure sounds like that to me as well. The domain was warehoused, no 3rd party backorder involved.

Brad

 

[johnn]

Ironically this domain was an internal backorder - a domain that was marked to not drop.

If Fadi had been patient and replied in a civil way, he would have gotten the domain back for the cost of the renewal. However, in light of Fadi's approach that was not an option as it rewards thuggery. As I saw it, the charity auction was the next best alternative.

Translation:
If Fadi was nice to me I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

 

[Fadi H]

Translation:
If Fadi was nice I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

They were not nice to me in first place. They call themselves legendary support but you can clearly see the how they handled this, Claiming that the domain was backordered by someone and trying to sell it to me and pushing me to make my "best offer" as the solution.

Here's an example of what I've been told :

"We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back"

Translation : We may be able to get in contact with ourselves as we are the new owners of the domain and help you buy the domain from us.

When you face a mess like this, And you don't find answers, It's natural to be angry and your reaction may not be nicer than the whole mess they did. I still apologized and removed what was not looking nice.

And yes, It's true that I wasn't patient with Rob, But Rob should be Epik and Epik should be Rob right?

Or Epik creates the mess then Rob resolves it to show up as a hero? Or it's because he found out that I'm a domain investor? As I was asked about how many domains I own across all registrars.

Then this :

The domain backorder has been canceled.

Then this :

Ironically this domain was an internal backorder

Someone please help me with a definition of a "backorder".

In accordance to the structure of events since the start of this issue and until this moment, I assume that it's their process with the domains they like, They just warehouse them and put them for sale if they are not renewed within their 15-day grace period, I think this explains the "most cases" they pointed in their TOS. In case of a domain they don't like they will place it back on your account and let you renew it. As with our guy here :

I've expirienced the same thing. I didn't know the grace period only 15 days. But fortunately no one backorder my domain.
Then the CS help me renew my domain

So it's a WIN-WIN, Either a domain name or a renewal.

And the "Backorder" story seems like a nice cover to the whole story as people most likely won't like the fact of them taking the domains and selling them.

 

[johnn]

This is nothing new to me.
Some people are still in love with them because the pricing but you get what you pay for.
They don't really care about their customers and let personal data exposed to hackers.
Now you know what company you should avoid when you have to register a new name.

 

[DN Playbook]

If Fadi had been patient and replied in a civil way, he would have gotten the domain back for the cost of the renewal. However, in light of Fadi's approach that was not an option as it rewards thuggery. As I saw it, the charity auction was the next best alternative.

Translation:
If Fadi was nice to me I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

This is very strange reasoning, indeed, admitting that Epik could have returned the domain at renewal cost if the OP did not engage in alleged "thuggery". Especially given the fact that Epik could have acquired DomainLiquidate.com for free had Rob and one of his goons not acted like thugs and been far more abusive than the OP is alleged to have acted. @Rob Monster “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

 

[bmugford]

This is very strange reasoning, indeed, admitting that Epik could have returned the domain at renewal cost if the OP did not engage in alleged "thuggery". Especially given the fact that Epik could have acquired DomainLiquidate.com for free had Rob and one of his goons not acted like thugs and been far more abusive than the OP is alleged to have acted. @Rob Monster “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

As for remedy, here is what we'll do. The domain backorder has been canceled. The domain is now in liquidation and anyone can bid for it:

So in summary it turns out the domain was never actually backordered. It was just warehoused by Epik, in contrary to what their support and Rob said. That is clearly misleading at best, and a direct lie at worst.

Rob has the ability to give the domain back to the OP, but decided not to because he offended him. What happened to godly qualities like forgiving, and being kind?

Instead, he decides to pretend to claw the domain back, when it reality it was just warehoused then essentially offer to sell it back to the OP while also virtue signaling about donating to charity.

Is that about right?

The warehousing part and pretending it was a backorder is shady and the second part is rather petty IMO.

Brad

 

[FolioTeam]

You didn't go over the thread else you'd have found your answer.

The support already confirmed that if a backorder is placed, That's 15 days. And if not, Then it can go up to 40 days.

I actually went through the thread. Just pointing out to people who might be unaware that different extensions have different expiry process. See @DirkS comment for more clarification.

 

[buydomainnames]

ICANN should apply same standard to protect domain owners, so any registrar / registry can't act like a domain owners or hide in their term and condtions to do whatever they want to registrants

Lets compare what happen today in several registrar

Registrar A : max 15 days to renew with normal price

Registrar B : max 30 days to renew with normal price

Registrar C : max 45 days , renew with normal price

Etc

Lets say icann force all registrar to give same periode to renew the domain names, there isnt case like this in the future.

 

[boker]

I may want to add, they've got their fine print covered. It's their right, we all deal with shady registrars at times, it's part of this business.

Point is, when you do, never let your domains expire. There are registrars allowing no grace period at all.

Edit: and obviously the poor customer service. You reached out and and were given a BS story.

The domain isn't on NL, still accepting offers to be accepted by the owner, Epik.

To be honest, 1 day after expiry, I don't think that you can trust 100% any registrar. At namecheap, I was told that they have a standard grace period policy, but that is not guaranteed all the times, so in some particular situations, you could loose your domain even in the first day after expiry. Also, I know plenty of issues when a domain at godaddy could not be transferred away and wasn't visible in the dashboard to manage it, 6 days after expiry( lot's of active domains locked at godaddy for various reasons, even before expiry, so you can't ever be sure).

 

[boker]

ICANN should apply same standard to protect domain owners, so any registrar / registry can't act like a domain owners or hide in their term and condtions to do whatever they want to registrants

Lets compare what happen today in several registrar

Registrar A : max 15 days to renew with normal price

Registrar B : max 30 days to renew with normal price

Registrar C : max 45 days , renew with normal price

Etc

Lets say icann force all registrar to give same periode to renew the domain names, there isnt case like this in the future.

All registrars are given the same period, but it's just a recommendation, they are not forced to do it, because registrars are paying the renewal fee to icann in day 1 after expiry, and they recover it when the registrant renews or when it drops.

 

[mayhemalex]

Same thing happened to one of my domains.. I believe on purpose..
I was aware of the shortened grace period but there was an issue renewing through the portal even before the grace period ended. I hit up the support rep on here who said he would look into it and get back to me... again aware of the shorter grace period I kept prompting him... not wanting time to run out... he just said.. your ticket is being looked at etc...

It was never auctioned or sold or dropped.. but 'internally held' by Epik... hmmm

Add insult to injury I got an email from Epik just recently advising that they are now taking offers on the domain (I think I filled out the query form on the lander at some point early on (actually ages ago.) to see what was up...)

I don't believe my conduct towards any party involved can be considered in the least 'thuggish'... quite the contrary..