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new gtlds Day 1 of the implosion N.gTLDs. Stop renewing

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This will be seen as Day 1 of the implosion of new gTLDs. Fundamental shift of opinion and direction happened at Mind+Machines the owners of .London .Law and the not so good .Horse .Rodeo, 20 in total. Big player in this space.

If you are investing in new gTLDs, you really need to read this.
I started a thread headless.domainer in a topless.bar to show why the new gTLDs have not taken off and why they will not. There was little defense of the new gTLDs .

Fortunately the fired co founder of Mind+Machines the CEO, who arguably is a bigger new gTLD believer than Frank Shilling, gave a detail response why he got fired and his difference of opinion with the board (notably all the board members voted him out). His response I feel is the best defense of the new gTLDs, he's still a big believer, so Im going to break his response down to get an insight of what is happening in this space.

Minds + Machines, the company I founded in 2009, informed me last week that I was no longer wanted as CEO.
Now what? New gTLDs are barely birthed. The industry is very young. Twelve million new gTLD names have been sold in just about two years. That's nearly 5% of all domain names out there. What reasonable person doesn't expect that to rise to 20% or more within the next few years? There's a lot of opportunity in the field.

ICANN predicted originally 33 million new gTLD domain name registrations in 2015—a number it later revised to just 15 million. Didnt hit that, so by any measure the numbers are pitiful
Conveniently forgets even those numbers are inflated by 5million that were registered at $1 or less. A rise to 20% of nothing is nothing. Interestingly his last post blasted strings like .xyz for distorting registration numbers and giving new gLTDs a bad rep for spam and fraud.
Domianers have spent by far the most acquiring these names. We are holding up this whole ecosystem.

And yet there are some signs of desperation out there. (AGREE) Demand for new gTLDs hasn't been what anyone expected.(AGREE) Many single-TLD registries, though not all, are hurting.(AGREE) Many registrars still do not fully support new gTLDs that aren't plain-vanilla .com clones. Its because they dont sell, GoDaddy and others will only promote what the enduser want, its your job to create enduser demand.

ICANN continues to treat registries and registrars as unpleasant necessities despite the fact that its sky-rocketing budget is underwritten by domain name sales. No breakout awareness of new gTLDs has yet occurred and until it does marketing of the new gTLDs, many feel as useless as pushing a piece of string.

OH its ICANNs responsibility to promote the new gTLDs. YEP no marketing, no awareness, no sales, its Business 101 But I forgot the new gTLDs were special, there was going to be people banging down your door to reg them. Didn't happen, so its ICANNs fault, not that you completely over estimated demand. If you felt that the new gTLDs would fail without ICANN promoting them, shouldnt you have made sure they were going to do that before you sunk millions into new gTLDs.

Even so, the larger players in our industry continue to be very bullish: .shop went for more than $40M, the single biggest mistake in domain history, wrote a post about that as well.
.app went for $25M and a secondary market in new gTLDs is heating up fast. Really could of fooled us domainers. Existing registries, and companies outside the space, are on the prowl. Despite the perceived lack of demand, some people are clearly seeing a lot of value in new gTLDs. Yes and Mind + Machines are hoping to be brought out before they lose more money. Have not shown an operational profit since its inception in 2009.

Why the disconnect? It's a matter of perspective, and cash. Owning a registry, or even better a portfolio of them, is a fantastic long-term business. Those who can't think long term (no cash) or won't (no vision), will not be well served by what's to come. OK so you wanted to burn more cash to realize your long term vision and the board disagreed with your long term vision being profitable and wanted to call a halt to the cash spend.


What kind of registries are out there, and how will they fare? Below I've listed some of the major types of commercial models (non-brand) that exist today, and what their prospects are; there are also hybrids of these models.


  • Registry as a domainer play: the registry is essentially an unlimited portfolio of names, and like a domainer you can price your inventory, park it, and wait for the right buyer to walk through the door. This model is concerned with understanding the value of each name and pricing it for maximum return. It also requires staying power and self-sufficiency; impatient investors are going to have a hard time with this model. This is the premium pricing and renewals model that the registries like so much. So the numbers look crap noone is buying them at the prices you set and investors are getting restless. Perhaps they are overpriced.
  • Registry as supermarket. Sell it super-cheap or give it away and try to win on large volumes with low margins. Because low prices disproportionately attract fraudsters, this approach is problematic but in the short term at least it seems to be profitable. In terms of resale, however, it may be a poisoned well. (AGREE).
  • Registry as small business. Make some nice signs, tell some friends, try to get good shelf space at the local store, take out some stands at trade shows, get some testimonials, keep the costs down, and build the business over time. This can work if there are no investors, or if they are angel investors looking for a nice ongoing income in the future. Having a single TLD instead of a portfolio is actually an advantage here. AGREE keep cost down, BUT 47% of the strings are not even profitable if you say there is only a $150,000 annual running cost.
  • Registry as part of a bigger plan. Naming is part of a vaster ecosystem that includes the branding, positioning, marketing, selling and licensing of companies, goods, and services on the Internet. And, importantly, it includes Internet governance. It takes no great power of observation to see that being a big registry, essential to commerce and communication on the Internet, contributing substantial amounts to ICANN, gets you a privileged seat at ICANN, at the center of things when it comes to deciding what the Internet will look like in 10 years. That's actually worth a lot, but it's only available, or useful, to the biggest players. A dig at Verisign influence on ICANN. Again ICANNs fault. ICANN is the scape goat for the failing new gTLDs, I expect we will hear this more and more but they are not there to promote the registries names.
Existing portfolio registries have basically two ways to go. One option is to build up the TLDs in the existing portfolio, treating them as a collection of small businesses, and hope that they become self-sustaining and will fetch a decent multiple of profits in an eventual sale. A better option would be to treat today's highly fragmented ownership of new gTLDs as an opportunity to continue the portfolio-building that began with the first applications, acquiring good TLDs that are selling cheap now, keeping focused on the long-term value.
There selling cheap because they are not making any money and your board decided they never will.


One thing we agree on IS there will be consolidation as more of these new gTLDs fail.

Internet Identity that looks at security of the internet for businesses and governments said this recently about the new gTLDs, and remember they have no axe to grind, they are not invested one way or another.

IID anticipates an unprecedented series of domain registry failures as a result of the lack of gTLD popularity by 2017 in the form of bankruptcies and abandonment. “Most new gTLDs have failed to take off and many have already been riddled with so many fraudulent and junk registrations that they are being blocked wholesale,” said IID President and CTO Rod Rasmussen. “This will eventually cause ripple effects on the entire domain registration ecosystem, including consolidation and mass consumer confusion as unprofitable TLDs are dropped by their sponsoring registries.” WHEN THIS HAPPENS BAD PUBLICITY FOR ALL new gTLDs and LOSE OF TRUST. THIS WILL BE THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

I have been a domainer since late December 1999 and what I see today really worries me about domainers losing their shirt. Do your research and invest wisely guys. Dont listen to propaganda, look at the numbers, they dont lie.
 
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They just made CasinoLive.com more valuable! If they develope it.

search.bing redirects to Bing.com - all the top 10 .brands by Alexa ranking do not use them as their main Public facing home page. Thats pathetic. This was going to be how there was going to be the breakout of public awareness. The .Brands doing the heavy lifting. Not going to happen what now? Oh time - its just a matter of time

Bla Bla Bla, look if you can't admit a good gTLD sale so be it. Actually if you had ever gambled online you'd know that online live casino's are not that popular. That's casino's online, offshore that has live dealers etc... that's what a casino live is! ;)

Other than that it's redundant, casinolive.
 
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Bla bla bla, pathetic..... over a $5k name.
 
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Bla bla bla, pathetic..... over a $5k name.

Accept your replies and lets don't do this again.

Value:

casinolive.com 1,000
casino.live 5100.00

This sale was a no brainer, anyone with a brain. $5K seems good this early in the game...

Now back to how gTLDs can't sale and don't renew them. ;)
 
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Good for the buyer or good for the seller
 
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search.bing redirects to Bing.com - all the top 10 .brands by Alexa ranking do not use them as their main Public facing home page. Thats pathetic. This was going to be how there was going to be the breakout of public awareness. The .Brands doing the heavy lifting. Not going to happen what now? Oh time - its just a matter of time


More .mobi rerun. The big companies investing in that mostly redirected their .mobi to their main site, except Nokia - and look where they ended up.

Microsoft invested €1.8m in the .mobi company and Google invested €600k and they and all the other investors just walked away and lost their money in the end, dumping the company and its losses into the arms of Afilias. And yes people had kept saying use by big names or marketing could make mobi popular, that sounds very familiar and it is seriously unlikely to happen.
 
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Thank God someone can see the bigger picture rather than fighting over Estibots valuation of Casino.Live at $5000 and CasinoLive.com at $1000 - which just shows how estibot can not be relied on.
Before you get excited Mad yes I agree good for the seller and dumb for the buyer unless hes got the .com
Its really important that we see the brands are not adopting them as public facing
 
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Thank God someone can see the bigger picture rather than fighting over Estibots valuation of Casino.Live at $5000 and CasinoLive.com at $1000 - which just shows how estibot can not be relied on.
Before you get excited Mad yes I agree good for the seller and dumb for the buyer unless hes got the .com
Its really important the brands are not adopting them as public facing

If you keeping spreading it, someday it will grow. I actually appreciate your non gTLD comments as it helps promote all the new gTLDs. Later... :P
 
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Can't we all just get along:)
 
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I don't think just new gtlds will implode, everything in this industry has been built on hype & speculation. I think it's only going to get worse from here.

Godaddy hasn't had one profitable year since 2009 (some reports indicate they've never been profitable) despite all the coupon codes they got rid of and all the new extensions & other services they've added over the years. They are over a billion in debt apparently.

Namebio's database of combined recorded domain sales only totals $1.3 billion. It's taken 20 years to get to $1.3 billion in recorded domain sales...the domain industry is truly hoppin'.
 
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They just made CasinoLive.com more valuable! If they develope it.
Completely agree!

I don't think just new gtlds will implode, everything in this industry has been built on hype & speculation. I think it's only going to get worse from here.
Completely agree!

Estibot sucks and always has. See below.

Domain Details:
Domain: microsoft.com


Category: Business -- Companies

Appraisal Overview:
EstiBot Value: $ 0 USD

That's below reg fee!
 
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Some other decent sales the last few days:
  • i.marketing = $12,500
  • jjj.xyz = $9,600
  • i.company = $2,150
  • Mind.plus = $2,000
And the Chinese bought some .XYZ names:
  • 9.xyz = $170,250
  • yy.xyz = $37,500
  • 22.xyz = $25,800
  • zz.xyz = $17,100
  • pz.xyz = $8,100
  • 118.xyz = $7,500
  • xxx.xyz = $6,450
  • yyy.xyz = $6,000
  • 987.xyz = $3,975
  • 189.xyz = $3,375
  • 6N.xyz = $3,375

What do you think guys, not that bad for something that is in the middle of imploding?! :P
 
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^ Sweet, I was just looking at them on dnjournal. I missed the part that these were very recent sales too, delightfully surprised.
 
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all those sale were by the registries not domainers!

I'm not at all impressed.
 
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^ Sweet, I was just looking at them on dnjournal. I missed the part that these were very recent sales too, delightfully surprised.

Ok, I have to admit that most of them are sold a few days prior to the official first implosion day. ^ ^
 
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all those sale were by the registries not domainers!

I'm not at all impressed.

No, not all. I am not impressed with your research.

And so what, the .CLUB registry sold a lot of domains as well. Now the extension is doing good on the aftermarket by itself.
 
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I seen the same post you did about the sales data. I'm not impressed with your pumping the gtlds with sales data just from the registries!
Still not impressed. Give me some more of your great research that you worked so hard on.
 
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The first one was a private sale. I guess the seller is a member here (at least he is a member on another DN board). The #3 and #4 were sold at SEDO, just as Casino.live.

What I certainly will do is to continue to report sales in the future. IF there are any post-implosion ones, of course. But for today, I am done here. It's past midnight.
 
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What I certainly will do is to continue to report sales in the future. IF there are any post-implosion ones, of course.

Thank you.
Hopefully some members on here that have spent lots of their money on ngtlds will be in your future reports as having sold something for a nice profit.
 
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The fact is, I see a few simple points.

1: ICANN really does need to stop the madness of creating "thousands" of ngtlds. It's senseless. When the need for more extensions comes, then carefully plan a strategy to fill the need.

2: Noone knows what the future holds. I can tell you that I never thought 20 years ago that domain names would sell for millions. Regardless of the motives. There are still millions and millions of people that will come online and maybe domain names will still mean something and maybe they won't. Just use discipline as a "domain investor" and you'll be fine. Don't...and you could end up losing money.

3: Domain investors are some of the brightest, innovative, people around. It's great to see people agree and disagree for the benefit of those who seek wisdom. I spend alot of time reading old posts here on NP. More people should. You would be surprised to see what people were saying years ago. And years from now, others will be reading our posts. :)

4: The debate over .com versus other extensions really doesn't matter in the long run. What you buy and sell versus what I buy and sell makes no difference. A domains value is only what a buyer is willing to pay. And that's the same no matter the extension. What I support is a robust industry full of opportunity and great people. Certainly it is a science, but there is also a big element of luck.

Peace!
 
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Some other decent sales the last few days:
  • i.marketing = $12,500
  • jjj.xyz = $9,600
  • i.company = $2,150
  • Mind.plus = $2,000
And the Chinese bought some .XYZ names:
  • 9.xyz = $170,250
  • yy.xyz = $37,500
  • 22.xyz = $25,800
  • zz.xyz = $17,100
  • pz.xyz = $8,100
  • 118.xyz = $7,500
  • xxx.xyz = $6,450
  • yyy.xyz = $6,000
  • 987.xyz = $3,975
  • 189.xyz = $3,375
  • 6N.xyz = $3,375

What do you think guys, not that bad for something that is in the middle of imploding?! :P

Those are outlier type sales. 14 out of 15 of those are 3 characters or less. Single digit, double digit, double/triple repeating. What percentage of people's portfolios would have those type of names. Also, were a lot of those auction sales? West.cn on 12/21. The Chinese ones you listed were on that 1 day, all 11 of them. Some other ones mentioned in some other thread, as evidence of an aftermarket, was actually a registry auction thru NJ. And I don't think anybody disputes, the registries are the ones really making some good money on these.
 
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And by the way,
Those are outlier type sales. 14 out of 15 of those are 3 characters or less. Single digit, double digit, double/triple repeating. What percentage of people's portfolios would have those type of names.
Agreed. I would love some outlier types. :)
 
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Thanks, I know you mean it good.
I think, I own (german) .top's from more than 300 different business fields.
I see no reason to choose much other TLDs - this TLD is universal, especially also for german language.
Of course I am waiting for offers (like every domainer) - but I can wait ;)

I don't know you, your domains and and wish everyone well.
However seeing that you target your .top to German market, I am afraid you'll fail.

Germany is a mature but conservative market. They love their ccTLD, the same as they use and regard hyphened-domains as high quality. Furthermore, .eu had been well adopted by endusers in Europe and does well and stable ay aftermarket.
Totally I can't imagine .top as a successful investment for Germany. But anyway, all the best for you, as said initially.
 
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