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Company wants to steal my brand and domain. What do to?

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noob_23

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I've been doing business under a brand and have owned the corresponding domain since the early '90's. Yes, I've been doing business under this brand since before the Internet went public and got the domain as soon as it was possible.

The brand was used in commerce prominently until about 2005 (manufacturing and selling product as well as consulting). I had a C corporation under the same name.

Around 2005 I shutdown the C corp and focused mainly on consulting with a few clients a couple of times a year. I operated as a "dBA" under this brand.

Because of the nature of this brand it has, over the last few years become very relevant to a market segment that is growing significantly world wide. I've been waiting for the right opportunity to shift back into designing and manufacturing products and that is finally here.

A couple of months ago individuals contacted me about buying the domain from me. It turns out they just started a company in another country using the same root name. They offered me a paltry sum (a few hundred bucks) to buy the domain. I told them I had zero interest in this.

Well, fast forward to today. They are now attempting to obtain a trademark in the US (I have a common law trademark spanning nearly 30 years of continuous use). If they are granted such a trademark I am sure it is their full intent to put as much pressure on me as possible to effectively steal my domain and trademark away.

These people have tens of millions of dollars available to them and have already stated they have no problem burning cash. While I don't have the financial horsepower to fight them long term, I have sought legal advise and will take a initial steps to mount a defense.

As I understand it, the domain can't be taken away from me all that easily. However, the approach seems to be to simply sue and force the smaller entity (me) to have to burn cash to defend or cave-in and give it up.

I am familiar with the nissan.com story (if you are not, visit that URL). It is interesting to note that the owner seems to hint it cost him somewhere in the order of $250K to defend his domain. I would have to sell everything I own, put my family on the street and that might still not be enough to endure an attack. Whether or not the lawsuit has merit doesn't seem to mean anything. It's a game of intimidation and pain where the one with the biggest bank account wins.

I am looking for any advise, opinion, links, etc. that might help me better understand what my options might be going forward. I am meeting with an IP attorney next week. That said, if folks in this forum know of highly experienced attorneys who are absolute experts in domain issues specifically I would definitely appreciate a referral.

Do I want to sell?

No, not really. Not interested.

However, if the choice is to sell or go broke defending it...well, I might have no choice. In that case it will have to be about how to get the most I can out of it which, to me, means 6 to 7 figures after taxes.

Thanks
 
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I wouldn't worry to much, If they offered to buy the domain this shows you have rights to it. As always more details would be needed to understand your complete situation.
 
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Might be cheaper to file a trademark yourself and then follow up with an opposition when they file theirs . If it's not a generic word
file copyrights too.
 
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Wow man, these sort of situation really piss me off man. Especially considering these guys are multi-million dollar operation. I mean the least they could do was come out and ask you to give them a figure. A figure that would convince you to sell them the entire brand and domain.... I know its been your "baby" for a long time but I'm sure if they made a decent offer you would at least consider it.

Maybe reply back to them and explain the history of your brand, time and effort that you have sacrificed to grown the business and brand. Then tell them it wont be feesible for you to walk away from the brand for anything less than ($$$$$$ -whatever that amount maybe). You could sell them the entire brand. Off course it would still be a good idea to consult an experienced lawyer on the issue and ask them how to go about doing this without putting yourself at risk.
 
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Kudos for being proactive
 
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I had this happen to me. I had to file for the trademark and have my lawyer oppose theirs to make sure they did not theirs approved. It worked.
 
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Thanks for all the responses. I am going to visit all links provided and see what I can learn. I am also going to meet with an attorney to get the trademark filing process under way (with the goal being opposition).

The company that is attacking me, as I said, has funding to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. A few days ago they started spamming the 'net with press releases. There are now 20 to 30 pages of results when you google the domain root keyword, all of them pointing to some entity republishing their press releases. Prior to this the top search results brought up my name. This is clearly an attempt to bury my out of relevance as it pertains to this brand.

Has anyone experienced this? How did you deal with it? A friend --who's not a lawyer-- suggested I might have no choice but to file a lawsuit immediately under the legal theory that they are causing severe damage and confusion to a brand I own.

Thanks again.
 
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The company that is attacking me, as I said, has funding to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. A few days ago they started spamming the 'net with press releases. There are now 20 to 30 pages of results when you google the domain root keyword, all of them pointing to some entity republishing their press releases. Prior to this the top search results brought up my name. This is clearly an attempt to bury my out of relevance as it pertains to this brand.

Has anyone experienced this? How did you deal with it? A friend --who's not a lawyer-- suggested I might have no choice but to file a lawsuit immediately under the legal theory that they are causing severe damage and confusion to a brand I own.

Thanks again.

A lot of this is strength of the mark and usage. If you're just a small business you may have local territorial rights despite the filing of a federal application for national rights. There are considerations, however, for expansion of a prior user's rights.

As for strength? It depends on the name, the class of usage being files, the class of usage being used. Just as someone shouldn't be able to take ownership of someone else's mark, someone shouldn't be able to prevent someone else for validly seeking a trademark. Owning a domain name allows you no special privilege other than the name... unless it's been actively used in doing business in which case you could use it evidence for your own TM and in contention of the other.

You should oppose it if you have a case. The fact that you shut down in 2005 and never actually even filed a trademark will mean that you don't have much in the way of TM rights, imho. Once even a real TM isn't renewed it becomes "available".

Fast rewind to yesterday - if the name was valuable to you then you should have protected it. You can't not make any effort and then expect the system to come to your defense. Nissan is a special case as it's the guys name and a name under which he is entitled to do business AND it's in a different niche.

Will it cost money? Sure it will, you think lawyers are going to work for free? There's not going to be any financial judgement that includes court fees here.

The company that is attacking me,

What makes you think it's personal?

This is clearly an attempt to bury my out of relevance as it pertains to this brand.

They're marketing a brand they are setting up. You appear to be under the impression that this is a brand you own. Your job is to PROTECT that brand. This means filing paperwork, it means working with a lawyer, it means spending money. The system is not setup to just allow someone to take global ownership of a brand/service mark. Doing business as... is not the legal name of your company but just another name for doing business under. It's not required in many states and it's not likely that much of an impact. It's not going to hold much weight in terms of trying to claim national ownership of a brand.

If your only concern is the domain? If you've been legitimately using it under a DBA you should be absolutely fine; however, I would recommend formalizing things a little better and certainly talking to a lawyer.

IANAL
 
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you mentioned selling it for right price.. so did you or did not yet try to present your sale price?
 
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A lot of this is strength of the mark and usage.

The fact that you shut down in 2005 and never actually even filed a trademark will mean that you don't have much in the way of TM rights, imho. Once even a real TM isn't renewed it becomes "available".

Products I manufacture under this brand have been featured in very prominent websites continuously for as long as the internet has been available to the public. Even past 2005, when I switched from C corp to dbA.

Will it cost money? Sure it will, you think lawyers are going to work for free?

Of course. The goal would be to minimize cost.

What makes you think it's personal?

No, I didn't say it was personal. They are attacking me because that's who they have to attack (in a business sense) because they want what I own. Not personal, business.

Thanks for your input.
 
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The most important thing to do is show use. Show past use of the website and show present use of the domain. That's all you need to do.

Something as simple as using the domain for your eMail since you have had it for so long, will justify your rights and continued ownership.

If there is a collision with use in trade; their product/business services the same industry, you should file an opposition to the TM with he USPTO.

Filing an opposition to a trademark, once it is published in the USPTO Gazette, is a good idea - however one does not need to have a lawyer to do so.

It's 2016, and most documents and information that anyone needs to protect their TM rights. I think it costs $200 - $300 to file an opposition to a TM and it's a simple form you submit via online.

*I am not a lawyer, but am knowledgable in the areas of IP, TM, and UDRP.
 
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Of course. The goal would be to minimize cost.
I know this is a throwaway comment because no one like to spend money but your goal should not be to minimize cost when it comes to legal matters related to your business. If there's one thing I do know it's that cheap solutions are rarely the best solutions. If there are two things I know its that sometimes the cheap solution costs mode in the long run. I would spend well on a decent attorney - if your current IP attorney meeting doesn't fill you with confidence, find another attorney. Ask about their familiarity with the UDRP and ACPA - ask if they've represented anyone in such a filing.

Concern on your domain - you may want to contact EFF and ask who they might recommend locally to you. They usually have a lot of info/resources on TM and Patent issues related to digital freedom.

No, I didn't say it was personal. They are attacking me because that's who they have to attack (in a business sense) because they want what I own. Not personal, business.

Understand. You personalized it with "attacking me" and I took that literally. They are likely just being better at online marketing than you. I don't suppose they are too focused on what happens to your rankings but more what happens to theirs.

From a domain name standpoint:

If you have actively been operating as a brand name on your domain and that supersedes their trademark you will not (well, should not be but UDRP is a flakey system at best) be at risk of losing the domain; however, the value immediately diminishes from a resale standpoint as you no longer own rights beyond your own use. In other words, you keep using it and get full value. Try and sell it and you can't due to the restrictions of the filed TM.
I recommend in the meantime that you don't try and sell the domain to them at all and just continue using it in its commercial capacity which is important to show your rights.

In general:
You should have prior usage rights to the territory in which you have established that mark (assuming you have actually established that mark). Your qualified attorney should help you sort out the best option. You could have concurrent usage dependent on the situation but you're getting into nuances of the law that are outside of the scope of regular forum users.

Wish you luck and prosperous future and don't be intimidated :)
 
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I had a similar situation but with a smaller company. Putting this in my email signature ...

That's very interesting. Well, at this point I'll await meeting with my attorney in order to decide on a course of action. I've taken note of everything said here and will bring that information to the meeting.

Thanks.
 
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I don't like "Trademarks" at all. But that's my view.

ANYHOW =>
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I got a UDRP against a domain of mine. But I didn't do business or financial gain with it.
So they lost because of the third requirement : They have to proof that you wanted to hurt them, or false intent (f.i. you would have registerred the domain, with the intent to get visitors from them, who are "so famous"). If what YOU are already so long doing with your domain, is something totally different then they want to do with the domain, they have in case of a UDRP no defence or can not proof false intent.
If what you are doing is something totally different then what they are doing and have (or make) a Trademark with a totally different content of what you do with the word (domain) then what they do (and is written in their Trademark), then they can't win a UDRP.
In comparison with my case you have a business, but used the word already for a long time at all, and yet won, because of no financial use and the fact that I couldn't have known them/or didn't know them.
What is very important for the domainname is that you never heard from them at the time of registerring your domainname. Do know that with my domain I HADN't a Trademark,and yet won the UDRP, because of the thrid requirement. I even didn't take a lawyer, and defended myself. (not that I didn't contacted one for some information, but I did my own defence, but couldn't pay them). But your case is a bit different then mine.
Anyhow I wish you all the luck !! (And if you can afford a lawyer, you better take one.
If it's a UDRP that you are afraid of, then you're likely to win, even if they make now a trademark, certainly if you didn't know them before you registerred your domainname (or they didn't exist yet). ;
If the content is different then what you do already for a long time with the domain, you can very well win.
But you're not only afraid of a UDRP (costs are dor them 1.500 Euro to begin a UDRP; nothing for your defence. Even if you loose. And you can always during the procedure say they can have it for nothing. Then i guess they can't ask any damagefee also.
But earlier cases above may be more similar to mine.
Kind regards
 
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If what YOU are already so long doing with your domain, is something totally different then they want to do with the domain, they have in case of a UDRP no defence or can not proof false intent.

What I've done in the domain is very much exactly in the same market they are in. However, I've been doing it since approximately 1995, before most of the people in this company were born.

I think I can say I am not too worried about URDP.

The only way they could force me to give it up would be through a very expensive lawsuit that forces me to choose between financial ruin and giving it up or selling it for a low value.

A trademark would help them justify such a lawsuit. However, in the US you can sue anyone for anything. It ultimately becomes a battle of who has the largest bank account or can endure the most pain.
 
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What I've done in the domain is very much exactly in the same market they are in. However, I've been doing it since approximately 1995, before most of the people in this company were born.

I think I can say I am not too worried about URDP.

The only way they could force me to give it up would be through a very expensive lawsuit that forces me to choose between financial ruin and giving it up or selling it for a low value.

A trademark would help them justify such a lawsuit. However, in the US you can sue anyone for anything. It ultimately becomes a battle of who has the largest bank account or can endure the most pain.

Yes, in Europe that's not like that mostly. And I don't know about what domain it goes.
But when that enormous bank (from another country) that had billions of money began a UDRP, I was scared. But the Swiss people (where the UDRP's are handled) said to me they certainly couldn't began a courtcase for "lost money", even if they would win the UDRP, I was at ease. And I decided to defend myself. And I won. (not on the 1st 2 parts of the 3 items they have to proof, but on the 3rd and 1 reason is enough for the defence to win the UDRP).

So inform yourself very well I should say. (maybe I'll PM a bit more, but I'm very busy right now ; you can also PM what name it's about with total discretion, and if i can, I'll try to help). Kind regards
 
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