Stolen domain who is liable

[Auction]

STICKY:

I recently bought a domain through Sedo. I completed the transfer and asked the seller what else he had. He had another domain I was interested in so I bought it as well using Escrow. I held it a month until I found a buyer. A few weeks later the new owner was contacted by Registerfly. The domain had been stolen and I assume it was returned to the previous owner (Unifiednames - unless that's some kind of third party). I am not sure the person I bought it from was the theif and the last I heard Registerfly wasn't sure either.

The member I sold it to is a Namepros member himself. He is now threatening to sue me and ruin my reputation. I have never dealt with this type of situation so I thought I would throw this out there to those who are more experienced. Who is liable? Registerfly, the current owner, the original owner, myself, or Escrow for not verifying the seller? At the current time the only person I am aware of out any money is the person I sold it to. Thank you in advance. I look forward to your responses.

 

[Riceman]

If the name was fraudulently transferred(sounds like it was) away from the correct owner, the name should go back to the righful owner. Is the person you purchased it from the one who stole the name? If so you might need to go the legal route to reclaim your dollars from them. I am surprised that escrow.com would not catch this during the verification process.

 

[Auction]

I believe the name is back in the hands of the owner (unless Unifiednames is a 3rd party used to settle disputes). Registerfly transfered it into Unifiednames account. I have not been told who took the domain or how the domain was taken.

 

[Riceman]

It might of been an unauthorized transfer and they are/have returning it. I am assuming they are/have investigated this issue. The real issue is the person whole sold it initially knew the domain was not their property and yet sold it. This could be a criminal act depending on the local laws of the country.

 

[Auction]

The party I bought it from is located in Vietnam.

Right now my customer is out the money. Who should be liable? Nothing is right except for the person who stole it to refund the money. However if that doesn't happen who's responsible for pressing charges and recovering the money?

Is it Registerfly for letting the transfer slip through?
Escrow for not completely verifying the transaction?
Myself, the guy I bought it from, the original owner for possibly not protecting his account, or the person I sold it to?

Some details I don't have may have to be known before answering those questions.

 

[Riceman]

You might need to consult a lawyer who deals with these type of issues to get the answer to your question vs relying on a forum for advice.

 

[Auction]

I appreciate your responses Riceman. I am hoping to hear from a few individuals who have been in similar situations. I did not think domain hijacking was all that uncommon. I hate to waste money on consulting a lawyer when it's likely going to be a lose lose situation.

 

[Mark]

Isn't Unified and RegFly the same co. ?

 

[RJ]

Yes, UnifiedNames IS RegisterFly. They are one in the same.

It sounds as though they are the ones that should be showing the proof to you that the name was stolen and specifying what happened to make them believe so.

 

[Auction]

It appears that is the case looking at the whois of both.

 

[g0ldy]

But how can i take that long for registerfly to seek out the stolen domain. Seems like 1-2 months gone by.

 

[Auction]

I believe they said it was toward the end of March. It was between 1 and 2 months.

 

[GeorgeK]

The original owner gets the name back. You claim against the person you bought it from. You're liable to whom you sold it to. If you didn't take protections in buying the name, researching the history and making sure you could reach the seller in the event of a problem, you basically suffer the loss --- caveat emptor.

There are too many stolen names floating around --- folks need to be very careful these days in who they are dealing with, and the chain of ownership.

 

[Auction]

Thank you for the response GeorgeK. To prevent this from happening again are there ways to look up previous owners of domains? I am unaware of any methods to verify ownership other than to check the whois.

Are the registrar's ever to blame for releasing domains without the permission of the original owner?

 

[g0ldy]

I dont think Registars get blamed because i think the user have to click verify to release?

 

[RJ]

Originally posted by sellinbiz
Thank you for the response GeorgeK. To prevent this from happening again are there ways to look up previous owners of domains? I am unaware of any methods to verify ownership other than to check the whois.

There are a couple of third party services that let you look up past WHOIS records. One is dialog.com, a pay service, and the other is WHois.sc, a subscription service.

I have a Whois.Sc membership and would be glad to help lookup past WHOIS details there and send you the results. PM me if you would like.

 

[suthra]

doing a history checkup might be of some help.

http://web.archive.org/collections/web.html

 

[Auction]

RJ Does either of those allow you to search by name and find out what other domains someone owns?

 

[RJ]

Originally posted by sellinbiz
RJ Does either of those allow you to search by name and find out what other domains someone owns?

Not directly, but you can see what other websites share the same IP address. That usually lets you see other domains a user owns if they are hosted domains.

 

[Auction]

Well it was a $1,000+ lesson, but I did refund the buyers money last week. I paid for the membership to whois.sc, but still don't find anything suspicious in the history. The domain is yuf.com which still appears to be in Unifiednames control.

 

[eSology]

This is scary. Being a Marine I have been known to drive long distances to straighten out problems. Vietnam is a long way to drive...

Sorry to hear this happen sellinbiz.

 

[theparrot]

you said you bought it using escrow? you may be able to get some recovery from the escrow company depending on what they offer and what assurances and insurances they give.

 

[AdsenseGuy]

After carefully reading this thread I would have to agree strongly with the scenario GeorgeK has outlined. Whereas each party would be held somewhat accountable to the parties they were involved with.

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

Talking with the seller on the phone can sometimes weed out the legit folks from the thieves.

An offshore seller is a red flag.

 

[jroy]

not all the time, there are many people in that post on these forums who do not live in the united states but yet hold a high reputation