opinion What I've Bought in the Past 12 Months and Why

DomainVP · Oct 14, 2015

jamesiles said:
LLNN.com Domains
This category of domain acquisition may surprise you a little, but I think that this could be the next category which Chinese investors look at. For now, they have a very low acquisition price with great bargains to be found on GoDaddy's Closeout site. As with numerical domain names, I believe that if these are to be a successful category, then repetition is key.

I've acquired domain names such as RR63.com and XE99.com recently, which are both starting to receive type in traffic.

I'm a bit saddened to see that someone has posted this, because the cat is out of the bag, but indeed you are 100% correct. A lot of domainers have detected this, and have been somewhat quiet about it.

I knew the cat was going to be out of the bag soon, as I was alluding to in a previous post... I was going to do a full write up in a few weeks once the news was out.

I've got to give credit where credit is due, @equity78 has been following the LLNN trend first, covering the saga of TB12.com and this caught my attention. Maybe it's time for that article you've been working on for forever!

LLNN.COM is on track to being the next Chinese 'Chip'/'PinYin' friendly domain name. The permutation math supports it, the sales data supports it, the demand and use supports it. If anything the fact that this is going on without people posting about it in the forums just shows how strong this namespace is going to be.

If you know about the early signs of NNNN growth, you will see some thrilling parallels to LLNN's

The premium LLNN's have been selling for $500+ at auction - the most expensive one I bought last week battling against multiple Chinese buyers to the tune of $680+

Again, the most important part of the LLNN niche is that it has formed naturally, nobody rushed to NP trying to guess if it was the next trend, or was blasting out LLNN lists etc... it became a trend on its own.

The reason this happened is because Chinese are actually developing on the namespace AND using it as a chip. In addition, there are going to be a lot of western sites that use the LLNN format - so LLNN isn't going to be just a strong domain for Chinese investors, but for the west as well.

I wrote a quick guide on how to buy LLLLs and I will be writing one soon on how to buy LLNN's, because there is a lot to understand before you jump in head first - that a,e,i,o,u,v mindset does not always apply here.

LLNN's will be equal to todays PinYin LLLL price within 6 - 15 months - welcome to the next buying trend.

James Iles · Oct 14, 2015

@Venu Prakash I usually look at how many companies there are in the area, and how active they are online (do they have Facebook, do they advertise, has their website been updated recently, do they own other domains).

DomainVP · Oct 15, 2015

djum said:
Hmm, this category is still far away, imho.

It's not far away, it's already here. It's just not being pumped by the western masses because it's harder to understand than the basic 4 letters.

I recommend anyone to try it for themselves, go try to dropcatch a repeating number with 'good' characters - you will get a hands on lesson on their value at the moment.

You want a HKNN or VNNN - they are all taken. And VN99 sold for $10,000 USD a few months ago to a Chinese buyer. The owner of CU33 is asking $20k, hmmm... a,e,i,o,u,v does not apply here, and I'll get into that later.

djum said:
At the same time other categories are shooting through the roof.
Chinese LLLL.net and now English premium LLLL.net with less than 5500 left now it won't take that long for them to be gone completely.

They are only shooting through the roof through speculation.

It's anyones prerogative to ride the wave, but that's where this interest is coming from. It's been done before.

Mass speculation, and pricing, rises in namespaces where massive amounts of handregs can be obtained and new domainers start to promote the namesapce.

With 456,976 4L.net permutations at next to hand reg fee, people buy 2k of them and start the promoting - value goes up

.

djum said:
Anyone have the full list of LLNN

I have a full list of LLNN, and I'll post it when I do my writeup in a few days. I wrote a script that can produce permutations easily - and I've checked it. There are roughly 4k 'okay' LLNN's left.

Anyone interested in getting in on it now should take $500 - $1000 and get a premium one now from owners that have held them since the 90's or 2000's and are unaware of the incoming wave. It's mostly Chinese ownership, instead of western domainers buying them for speculation.

Keep in mind, this is on the back of zero promotion on any forums. It's how domains of real value actually rise, as 4N's and 4L's have.

All of the good ones are already taken, and have been for quite some time - which is why there isn't much fanfare or awareness.

Most people just follow the leader without doing any real research. Chinese buyers split the LLLL domains for meaning as it is, so LLLL is actually LL | LL for buyers. So LL | NN makes sense, because it is saying two things, which is what they look for in 4L as well.

Some info for thought...

Permutations:
456,976 LLLL.COM's
67,600 LLNN.COM's

But in the end... I don't even need to 'sell' this... the word isn't going to come from new domainers.
You will see some very strong voices in domaining calling the same thing very soon, especially since western marketing trends are leaning towards the LLNN naming format as well.

LLNN has the support and ability to match or overtake LLLL in the near term.

GCCinternet · Oct 15, 2015

Well said @DomainVP.

As another person commenting about LLNN.com domains isn't likely to make difference, let me share my comments.

In the end of August 2015 I got interested in these names. There are growing number of sales all the time at stable price level of ~$200~$500 usually, with 4-figures as well and one $10k sale. If you analyse NameBio, you will see that LLNN are much often traded and at higher price level than NNLL.
I would note also that LLNN are visibly rarer than LLLL (permutation of 26*26*26*26=456,976, while 26*26*10*10=67,600). If you subtract vowels and 4s, it's less. So the natural question is why shouldn't they trade at the same or theoretically higher level than LLLL, at least at wholesale/domainer2domainer? (Western end-user/global corporation may pay more for LLLL in fact than LLNN)

On August 20, there were slightly under 1,000 LLNN names without vowels and 4. I registered a "trial" of ~130 names, starting from best IMO ie. round/whole numbers LLN0 (whole dozen at the end).
Later, on September 22, there were only 215 left. Yesterday, on 2015-10-14, nothing was available from this list already. The scale of vanishing isn't like for 6Ns (at least now, because it's the end of availability), but stable liquidity, price floor and the fact of rarer combinations, they all together set very solid grounds for value of LLNN.

If you subtract vowels and 4, the floor price for these names is ~$160, excl. several dozens BIN offers below ~$100.

~AW

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

phase1 said:
Please when you are writing the article on LLNN or NNLL , I wish you will include LNNL or NLLN.
Or what do you think about that.

I don't think that NLLN or LNNL will be on the scene yet. I do think they will have their day, but I can't say that's going to happen for a few years.

Part of it is the view of 'balance' within the Chinese buying culture.

Mathematically NLLN and LNNL makes good sense, after all the name of the game is owning rare names, but Chinese buyers are looking for domains that have a split balance like LL | NN.

I think that LLNN's will take off, and then NNLL's will follow suit after, but LLNN will be the stronger of the type because they are also very friendly for western buyers:
CE21.com (US medical education)
TB12.com (NFL Star Tom Brady's portal)
there are more, but I'll save it for the longer post.

NNLL's are selling at auction very evenly, but LLNN is having some $x,xxx sales that I believe to be a good indicator that they are being valued more than the NNLL format.

In the end this is my opinion, and I'm just sharing my take it since OP has seen similar value in LLNN.

I think that there will be some very public support for this soon once the premiums become less affordable to snatch up so IMO now is the time to invest in a few good ones.

James Iles · Oct 14, 2015

@wealthtaker101 I haven't invested in any LLLN.com domains so I couldn't really comment. NameBio reports 7 LLLN.com domain sales for September - six of which are in the low $xxx

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

adomaindeal said:
I checked on Godaddy and there is so many dropping everyday, it seems no one is buying even with two same digit and two same letters in closeout section, which you can buy for $12 and add renewal fees so total cost around $19.
Can anyone tell is it good investment to buy all of that closeout names.

Thats not accurate.

There are only 36 of them in closeout, and they are of low Chinese quality. If you notice, most of those 36 are regged in 2014.

There are none in GD closeout with repeating letter, and the ones with repeating number have low quality letters which would make the domain undesirable for the cn market.

Stay away from a,e,i,o,u,v, 4's and double zeros (00) BUT there are exceptions... I'll get into that later though.

Right now it's not a good investment to buy these types at closeout, or else they would have already been bought. The 'good' ones will never make it to closeout. Spend some money and buy good ones from current owners and at GD auctions & drop auctions.

Those that aren't sure of what I'm saying, I'm telling you - find a good one and try to own it. You will quickly find that the competition is fierce.

Like I said before, if anyone is hoping for a good handreg or closeout for a LLNN - that ship has sailed.

Yes, good ones are dropping every day, just like every domain namespace - buy you have to know the difference between what is good and what isn't right now.

Every nice that has exploded follows the same format:
1.Best ones are regged years in advanced
2. then the good ones bought
3. then the okay ones get bought
4. at the end of the cycle before prices go up the lowest tier ones remaining are bought in bulk.
5. Prices and demand explodes and it noticed by the entire market

Right now LLNN's are between 3 & 4 - and they got there through actual Chinese market demand and use, not through a huge push of domainer speculation.

Do some research, have fun exploring, and in a few days I'll post in detail.

elevator · Oct 16, 2015

Nice article, filled with good ideas.

DomainVP said:
I knew the cat was going to be out of the bag soon, as I was alluding to in a previous post... I was going to do a full write up in a few weeks once the news was out.

I wrote a quick guide on how to buy LLLLs and I will be writing one soon on how to buy LLNN's, because there is a lot to understand before you jump in head first - that a,e,i,o,u,v mindset does not always apply here.

LLNN's will be equal to todays PinYin LLLL price within 6 - 15 months - welcome to the next buying trend.

Please when you are writing the article on LLNN or NNLL , I wish you will include LNNL or NLLN.
Or what do you think about that.

Thanks

Cheers.

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

GravityEleven said:
imho investing in strong patterns in the 6-9N range is a safer play than investing in random LLNN (at similar entry costs)..

I see where you are coming from with this. You also know that at one time CVCV was also the 'safer' play than buying Chinese premium 4L.coms, and so were many other choices.

That's where LLNN is right now - and that's what I am saying.

I've been in the LLNN namespace acquiring premiums, and I agree with OP in saying that:

This category of domain acquisition may surprise you a little, but I think that this could be the next category which Chinese investors look at. For now, they have a very low acquisition price with great bargains to be found on GoDaddy's Closeout site. As with numerical domain names, I believe that if these are to be a successful category, then repetition is key.

=================================

djum said:
Got where??
To what price level?
Oh, I forgot, there's still no sales.
But, "I'm telling you - find a good one and try to own it. You will quickly find that the competition is fierce."
Own it and pray That maybe one day they will start to sell.

You do you my friend.

You control your own happiness, and if you want to be the 4L.net breaking news king, I hope all of your dreams come true - and that's all I will say about that.

Meanwhile.... the prices are reminiscent of early NNNN and early pinyin LLLL. There are a great deal of private and unreported auction sales as well, because I've won some that aren't on the list, and some that are

vl19.com 102 USD 10/15/15
jh66.com 297 USD 10/14/15
my66.com 560 USD 10/11/15
ag31.com 227 USD 10/9/15
hk37.com 148 USD 10/7/15
hp18.com 273 USD 10/6/15
jq55.com 148 USD 10/4/15
xj51.com 128 USD 10/1/15
hj95.com 123 USD 9/28/15
nm88.com 1,170 USD 9/27/15
sr28.com 131 USD 9/22/15
sj22.com 148 USD 9/15/15
yh92.com 1,003 USD 9/14/15
zs66.com 104 USD 9/14/15
xc88.com 1,120 USD 9/13/15
nf10.com 120 USD 9/10/15
dn01.com 157 USD 9/8/15
kj42.com 148 USD 9/7/15
yu99.com 222 USD 9/3/15
md88.com 2,320 USD 8/30/15
rb93.com 196 USD 8/30/15
sf10.com 261 USD 8/28/15
cp68.com 2,495 USD 8/26/15
se41.com 119 USD 8/21/15
ig88.com 3,000 USD 8/10/15
pj34.com 880 USD 8/5/15
vt12.com 100 USD 7/17/15
ld72.com 1,500 USD 7/16/15
ic68.com 138 USD 7/15/15
pt18.com 799 USD 7/13/15
sh66.com 1,070 USD 7/9/15
yj78.com 124 USD 7/9/15
cn66.com 210 USD 7/1/15
cs71.com 2,619 USD 6/29/15
uu33.com 850 USD 6/29/15
vk88.com 250 USD 6/28/15
bi88.com 343 USD 6/26/15
av88.com 510 USD 6/25/15
vn99.com 10,000 USD 6/22/15
bp88.com 720 USD 6/21/15
za88.com 380 USD 6/21/15
kj84.com 242 USD 6/16/15
kd58.com 1,244 USD 6/15/15
yh76.com 560 USD 6/8/15
fl88.com 1,225 USD 5/27/15
xy99.com 175 USD 5/19/15
bs88.com 600 USD 5/16/15
go88.com 680 USD 5/14/15
td88.com 250 USD 5/4/15
js83.com 1,319 USD 4/21/15

Nile Patel · Oct 17, 2015

Hey guys stop fighting, lets work each other.

I will watch this category very careful if any cheap buy available would buy and flip in next 6 month.

I just have good luck with my 4l.com portfolio sonot lossing anything by buying this new category even i loose , since this is not anymore practical or logical game after all this chiense buy out.

All new domainers do their own research do not burn your pocket just play safe game.

My honest opinion is buy good name with paying premium and hold little long or buy anything which you can flip in few months and get your money back and buy again and so ...

Nile Patel · Nov 7, 2015

lol you will not find any good LLNN under $251, i have not bought any single but watching auction and it going around that range do not know when this will pop out.

DomainVP · Nov 8, 2015

pablohc86 said:
@DomainVP any news about your article about LLNN? thanks

In good faith I can say that now that the base prices are rising rapidly with LLNN domains, there are LLNN's that get passed on that are pure gems (in my opinion). I've gotten so much direct traffic from China that I've had to go back and re-code my landing pages to balance loads on MySQL server.

With that said, I am an active buyer. So for me to divulge my full buying strategy does me more harm than overall good at the moment - but I can share some of my thoughts at the moment.

With LLNN the standard pinyin buying formula of aeiouv does not apply. Value has been seen in western development and in China development. Planning for chip trading is a great way to hedge your buy, but I am buying based on potential branding/development use.

Also, most closeout LLNN's are just a risk based buy on the fact that they are LLNNs. So if you see a LLNN sitting there in closeout, it means most of us active buyers have already passed on it. Who knows, you might just get lucky, but buying based on luck can be expensive.

It's what happens when the buying scope narrows. Strong buys are based on combinations and meaning, then once those are all secured, the remaining ones are left until a smart investor with some $ to toss around just buys out any remaining LLNN's with vowels, 4's, and 'leading' zeros in the NN split.

So at this point you will have to either battle it out at auction, or start contacting aftermarket sellers and make some smart acquisitions.

I'm holding. I'm not looking for a quick flip, nor will I be doing any kind of outreach. I think by next year, regardless of a possible 4L 'burst' these will gain value as it is a very undervalued namespace.

NNLL will probably follow suit after that. NNLL may be for some people - it's just not for me right now.

In the near term, as everyone can see right now, the value of LLNN is raising sharply - and may continue to do so higher and faster than I can forecast.

3-4 months ago I spent $60 on four 'okay' 6N's that I sold for $800 in the last 12 days. Typically those kind of buys took much longer to gain value - in todays market it could take a few short months.

Case in point I hand regged a repeating letter (not aeiouv) LLNN a few months ago. Today, I am very sure I could get at least $150 for it here on NP and if I did some Chinese outreach probably $500+. That's a pretty good ROI for an $8 July purchase.

I took a break from buying last week as I have had a lot on my plate and I spent a nice chunk on buying, Including a LL88, and I was blown away to see how few LLNN's are being dropped and are at expired auctions. There are only two at GD auctions tomorrow - TWO. It really puts into perspective where this namespace is going.

Conversely, there are 11 4L's at GD auction that are true expiring auctions

Just my thoughts on LLNN's at the moment, I hope you have found value in my perspective.

gsmith · Oct 13, 2015

CrocodileDundee · Oct 13, 2015

Nice acquisitions James, I love seeing other peoples buys too.

James Iles · Oct 13, 2015

@impulse - yes, I'm very active with outbound sales.

DnEbook · Oct 13, 2015

I think the LLNN market is perhaps a sleeping giant ?

James Iles · Oct 13, 2015

@evirtual1 I think it's a logical next step for Chinese investors. I might be wrong, but hey.

James Iles · Oct 13, 2015

Some seem to be selling well (according to NameBio), but I haven't invested in any.

Lucky jose · Oct 13, 2015

nice write up James, that's great. strategy u've got.

James Iles · Oct 14, 2015

You're welcome @rubencouto

James Iles · Oct 14, 2015

@Omar Negron Thanks for the comments Omar

bigdomainer · Oct 14, 2015

Thanks for sharing @jamesiles - I appreciate the explanation of the "why" behind your acquisitions.

Abdullah Abdullah · Oct 15, 2015

Great post James. I also invest in two word .coms that mean something, and though I never made big sales with them, I do still sell more than the brandables ...at least for me.

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

dann-o said:
Again, I see the sales too. I think the key is the split balance you were speaking of, LL/NN.

Agreed.

dann-o said:
It's hard to argue with sales, but I don't see rarity the same way. I think once you get to NLLN, LNNL, LLLN, LLNL, etc, then I see 1,679,616 combinations available (36x36x36x36, 26 L's + 10 N's).

That's okay, it's easy to want to group all of the mixed combos together, but it's not playing out that way right now. It would be like grouping all LLLL's together - the letters and patterns do influence the value.

I do think that all of the mixed combos will have value in 2-3 years, but right now LLNN is the frontrunner.

dann-o said:
Before you get into these "weird" combinations of L's and N's, shouldn't all the NLN, and LNL's be bought up first? Even by my math there's only 46,656 of these available, while using the conventional approach there's only 2,600 NLN's (10x26x10), and 6,760 LNL's (26x10x26).

There was a time when ALL numeric domains were 'weird'. I think reading one of the earliest NNNN threads here is a nice experience with how value starts to naturally emerge from different domain formats.

Today, demand for NNNN.com domains is still strong. Just this morning, 8582.com sold for $180 at Enom.

Reading that thread in hindsight is almost hilarious when people were saying things like, "I tend to keep away from number only domains".

In the end, this is my take on them and I stand by it. Either a future domainer will hold what I'm saying in regard, or they will dump all over it. Only time will tell.

But the demand is there for this namespace, and it is increasing from an actual end user position - not just from new domainers huckstering.

Should you bet the farm on it, no of course not - you shouldn't do that with anything.
But I do think it's a good idea to add these to your portfolio now before the demand increases even more.

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