BrandBucket Experience

[xtremex]

hello

I am new to BrandBucket. Before getting my hands on this

I wish to experience about brandbucket from my fellow members


Thanks

 

[urljunky]

My stats are same as slimjims. last batch that got reviewed was 12/03/2014.
and the latest batch pending review was submitted on 11/18/2014.
So I do think they are do for another cycle.

 

[slimjim270]

Hi All,

'7' appears to be my lucky number.

I recently submitted 54 .com domains to BrandBucket with 14 accepted over the past 30 days.

7L's had the highest rate of Accepts in my initial batch.

Accept Stats: (by domain length)

5L - 2 Accepts
6L - 3 Accepts
7L - 7 Accepts (50% of 14 total Accepts from a recent Review Cycle)
8L - 2 Accepts

* This appears consistent with prior post # 322 by Hookbox. Great post by the way. Very informative. (I've included a quote below of Hookbox's review)

My Observations

1) 5-8 letter names appear to be the "Sweet Spot" for sales and accepts at BrandBucket. I don't have any 4L's to submit, so have no data for 4L submits. 9L + appear to be a waste of time when referring to the 5-8 ratios from Hookbox's review. My initial batch is consistent with the review results.

2) It makes sense BB would accept inventory to where they sell best.

3) BB should provide more stats to motivate/educate their inventory suppliers (sellers). I am a big fan of transparency. "You manage what you measure" is how I operate. Like many of you, I use data to better understand market dynamics and make informed decisions.

4) BB should hire a couple of designers (on a temp basis) to eliminate their logo backlog. Logo's in Q are a lost sale opportunity. Also, this becomes a missed opportunity for their customers (both Buyers & Sellers) while names sit in a Q waiting a logo design. A $1,000 investment for a (temp) designer for 40 hours would provide value for all parties (BB, Buyer, Seller) and would likely knock down the backlog quite a bit.

I hope you find the post helpful...

-Jim

ps: I also recently joined Brandroot and Namerific. I have a low volume of submissions with them at the moment, but will provide a comparison with metrics once I have more submits with each of them and a larger data set to benchmark.

Good info Ray. I was doing analysis on this also and I think one of the most important aspects is the length of the name which you touched on some. Most people here are fixated on what BrandBucket will accept but more important is what will sell if they do accept it. Bottom line the name could be accepted but may never sell based on past performance by length. Here is the complete breakdown of sales by letter length.


4 letter 48 sales
5 letter 145 sales
6 letter 198 sales
7 letter 149 sales
8 letter 92 sales
9 letter 31 sales
10 letter 8 sales
11 letter 4 sales
12 letter 4 sales
13 letter 0 sales

53% of all 4 letters listed sold
32% of all 5 letters listed sold
23% of all 6 letters listed sold

As you can see from this analysis most of the names that BrandBucket sells are made up one word style names because they are less in length. Two word names sell some but based on track record you can see that its not so often based on length since most two word names are 8 letters or longer. Also you can see from this that the shorter the name the easier it is to sell which constitutes higher prices from end users. You can also see the dramatic drop off from 7 letters to 8 letters and beyond when it comes to sales. Hope this helps some.

 

[PowerDN]

Sold two names today at BB

 

[wwwulff]

Congrat - Which names?

 

[wwwulff]

Just sold SureWorth at BB

 

[advaita]

Congrats Rizki - how many names do you have with them? How long they been listed?

 

[12345]

Congrats on the sales!

I've sold these four over the last couple of weeks...

A D S P I K E
Y I E L D L Y
S T Y L E C L O U D
H E A L T H S I G N A L

 

[PowerDN]

One is 14 months and the other is 6 months.

Congrats Rizki - how many names do you have with them? How long they been listed?

 

[slimjim270]

Hi All,

Will there be a continuous need for "brandable" domains?

I have thought long and hard about this topic and searched for non-bias data to support my response. I believe the answer to be "yes" based on data and trending statistics I recently consolidated.

As some of you know, I am a Data Analyst by trade, so this morning I built a spreadsheet of historical Trademark applications from the US Patent & Trade Office over the past 100+ years. (Raw Data Source: uspto.gov)

An interesting trend...

Decade Filed Registered
1880's 36 36
1890's 324 305
1900's 2,410 2,264
1910's 2,479 2,338
1920's 10,759 10,468
1930's 9,832 9,945
1940's 28,095 19,036
1950's 44,616 48,238
1960's 124,310 112,984
1970's 212,876 235,925
1980's 592,291 441,828
1990's 1,582,308 720,510
2000's 2,612,607 1,422,580

* Less than 50 years ago ~10,000 applications/year were submitted (filed) with the USPTO. Today over 320,000 applications/year are submitted (filed) with the USPTO.


What drove the spike?

The invention of a 2 new technologies (radio and television) provided an opportunity for companies to promote their products nationally. While promoting their products, companies wanted "their" beer not just "any beer" to be purchased and the USPTO went on a hiring binge of attorneys to accommodate the surge in Trademark applications as modern day differentiation of products (branding) exploded.

The recent spike in the last 2 decades (199X & 200X) was due to another new technology... the internet.

By the way, in the 1st 5 years of 201X, there have already been over 1.8M trademark applications.


How does this relate to BrandBucket?

Economics.

With the supply of .com's available for handreg quickly diminishing and the demand for Trademarks increasing at a fast pace, I believe the pricing of .com's in our inventory will rise (a good investment) and the need for a marketplace to acquire .com's will continue to grow (a sales channel).

I don't personally know the founders of these marketplaces, but I believe Margot (BrandBucket), Michael (Brandroot), and Zane (Namerific) have made a good decision to build marketplaces for pre-screened .com's to assist business owners with acquiring the asset they need to build a brand; a .com being one of those assets.

I also believe, based on the above chart, that .com's are a reasonable investment as the supply is regulated (only 456,976 4L char .com's will ever exist) much like only ~500,000 1955 double die pennies will ever exist as the supply was regulated (accidentally) by the US Mint.

I hope you find the above chart and post interesting...

-Jim

 

[hookbox]

I love data and always appreciate when someone takes the time to do stuff like this.

Interesting that during the great depression era was the only time that trademarks decreased throughout the timeline.

One problem with this data is that you can't take into account the fact that during the early years it was extremely difficult to register a trademark. Now it is very easy to go online and register one. Trademark criteria also has become very lax over the years which you can't put into your formula either.

I also don't see much of a spike in the number of trademarks registered. Every year since the beginning of time the numbers basically doubled every 10 years. That's not a spike that is normal progression.

I think the ease of filing an application and being able to log on to the USPTO.gov and do all your own research and instantly be able to apply for a trademark has led to the increase in applications lately.

 

[Sirkarl]

Sold these names over the last two weeks...

T A P S L Y
S C O U T R O C K E T
U P F O C U S
T E C H F U L L Y

How much actual time and money do you spend promoting these domains. I am relatively new.

 

[12345]

How much actual time and money do you spend promoting these domains. I am relatively new.

Hi. I didn't do anything besides putting them on BB. These four were probably up there for around 6-8 months.

 

[slimjim270]

Hi All,

This past week I spoke with (3) local graphics designers, each has 10+ years experience in the business.

Why?

Because when I see a problem, I like to better understand the root cause.

Problem:

I have been time stamping BrandBucket's response time along their publishing path for listing domains. My review indicates that BrandBucket (Margot) attempts to keep their Review Cycle under 15 days. Additionally, it appears they make an effort to keep Pending Reviews under 30 days. Both Review Cycle and Pending Reviews timeline benchmarks appear consistent over the past 60 days. However, the Logo Design delay benchmark continues to grow and is currently at 48 days (from the day of a name Accept to no design yet). I have included my tracking at the bottom of this post.

Root Cause:

As domain investors, we are receptive to risk. We observe a market, collect data, and make investment decisions weighing risk/reward.

From my conversations this past week with the 3 local designers, something became apparent. When I told them the payment system for designers, all (3) said "$100 and I only get paid if/when the domain sells? If only 10% of the domains sell per year, that means I'm only making an average of $10 per logo I design. I currently have billable clients willing to pay me $350 - $750 for a logo design. And they pay me within 30 days, not 6-12 months out. Why would I spend time on this?"

Good point.

The designers I spoke with were a risk adverse group, running their own business and cash-flow sensitive (as most business owners are). Especially cautious when their risk/reward was imbalanced to their current billing rate.

I asked each if they would consider hiring a college intern to do the work and they monitor the work. Only (1) said "I'll think about it, but that means I'd have to bankroll the expense - possibly for 6-12 months before being reimbursed - I'm not overly keen on the idea".

And there's the rub.

Solution:

I see 4 solutions.

1) BrandBucket (Margot) hires a full time graphics artist to address the process bottleneck.

2) I (we) personally hire graphics artist to do our own designs, apply to BrandBucket for a Designer account, and submit the logos under our own Designer account. I (we) carry the cash-flow burden of paying up front and waiting for "winner" logo payments to off-set our out of pocket for the logos.

3) I (we) wait patiently for the logos to be designed under the current timeline.

4) I (we) consider other marketplaces. [sales, not emotions, will dictate my direction - I am testing 3 marketplaces over the next 6 months - BrandBucket/Brandroot/Namerific - then will adjust my submission volume proportionately to the one that sells the highest sales rate, will receive a higher % percentage of submissions]


This is a business decision.

I am not complaining. I am trying to better understand the market and how to best receive a return on my investment (domain portfolio).

I would appreciate your thoughts on the topic?

Thanks,

-Jim

------------------

BRANDBUCKET METRICS: Date Delay
12/22/2014
Last Review Cycle 12/16/2014 6 days
Oldest Submit w/ Pending Review 11/18/2014 34 days
Oldest Accept w/ Pending Logo 11/4/2014 48 days

 

[JudgeMind]

I still have domains pending review from nov 17th, I agree it would be better if bb hired a full time designer as it would speed up the process. As for doing our own designs, I have applied and been denied.

 

[MrHappy101]

The logo design is only part of the problem.

10% of domains sell per year and they keep adding more to earn income from the submission fees.

8164 names currently and how do they market them? Via social media and emails, but all they do is list them. That's not selling, that's not grabbing a potential buyer's attention. That's being lazy! With the amount of submissions too, you'll see a domain once on these forms of media and they'll get buried within a couple of days by the following domains being submitted.

Continuing this point, I'll be interested to see what % of followers to social media and subscribers to emails are domain sellers and what % are businesses actively seeking domain names. Why is a start-up company going to sit on their backside and wait for Brandbucket to email them a bunch of random names in the hope that they like it enough to buy it. People actively seek names to secure them for their business and that fits in with what they are potentially doing. I don't see how listing them on a couple of channels is an effective marketing strategy and it is evident by the % of sales it seems.

 

[discobull]

How much actual time and money do you spend promoting these domains. I am relatively new.

To put these sales in perspective, I think it's worth mentioning that Michael currently has 859 domains listed on brandbucket ( see link below ). Don't expect the same results if you're only listing XX domains.

https://www.brandbucket.com/profile/mediaplow/page=1

 

[namecloud]

Hi friends. I'm new in this. Is there a "name formula"(domain available. LOL) for finding brandables?

I try inventing pronounceables but majority
are already taken. I try dancing around some
keywords and come up with words like TRIGITAL, HYPERFORM, PITCHCRAFT, etc but I find them all taken.
Very few I find available are invented 7+ letters. But I always love keyword brandables.

Will anyone mind sharing a little formula?
does the analyst Slimjum270 have any "theorem" for "solving" this "problem"?
Thanks.

 

[slimjim270]

Hi friends. I'm new in this. Is there a "name formula"(domain available. LOL) for finding brandables?

I try inventing pronounceables but majority
are already taken. I try dancing around some
keywords and come up with words like TRIGITAL, HYPERFORM, PITCHCRAFT, etc but I find them all taken.
Very few I find available are invented 7+ letters. But I always love keyword brandables.

Will anyone mind sharing a little formula?
does the analyst Slimjum270 have any "theorem" for "solving" this "problem"?
Thanks.

@namecloud -

"Brandables" is a wide category. I assessed the market and decided to focus on (3) areas (5L, Rhymes, Tailgating). Others have success with TwoWord combos. I seem 2W challenged.

5L - 2L, 3L, 4L are all already taken for hand-reg. I researched a variety of sales and started focusing on 5L's. I wrote a software tool to help automate the process where I enter the 1st 3 letters and the tool auto-displays on the screen all combinations of available 5L's where the last 2 characters have at least 1 vowel for the 3 letter seed entered. I create a short list, then have my 5th grade daughter read them out loud to me. If she pronounces one on my short-list differently than I did originally, I immediately line it out. I then print a list and ask her to line out 7-10 that she "dislikes". Independently, I do the same. If we have any "dislike" overlap, I immediately remove the domains from the short list. We then both (independently) circle 5 that we "like". If we both overlap, I hand-reg them. Let me be the 1st to say... "yes, I am not always smarter than a 5th grader".

Rhymes - Great area of success. I compiled a list of 2-3 letter vowel sounds and wrote a software tool to blend a 3-5 letter "seed" word with the list. Rhymes are easy to remember / easy to pronounce. Based on research I did of 4-5 sites that I track, rhymes appear to be in demand by buyers.

Tailgaiting - I compiled a list of 200+ common endings - from domains that have sold on 4-5 sites that I track sales. I use an Excel file on this one where I enter a 2-4 letter beginning and glance through the "tail" combinations. I then cut/paste my short list in my registrars Bulk Entry window for availability. I then ask my "Phonics Master" (5th grade daughter) to tell which 5 she "dislikes" and which 5 she likes best of those available for hand-reg. You may laugh, but she's dead on consistent 80% of the time with those I was considering before asking her insight. A good sign when 2 demographics pronounce a name consistently.

Finally, I primarily focus on 5L - 9L names. The selection process is subjective. The tools help with the objective side of automation.

This is not a "get rich quick" game for me. I am acquiring domains as an investment - to hold for when the 5L, 6L, and 7L's start to become thin in 3-4 years and even more difficult to acquire via hand-reg. In my opinion, this is like 1955 double die pennies (prices will rise over time as availability of a limited supply decreases as others take them out of circulation).

Let me know if this was helpful...

-Jim

 

[Domainzy]

@MrHappy101 Brandbucket advertises heavily. Their Adsense ads are everywhere. Social media and emails are basic methods that are automatic and completely obvious. If you want to know about what websites are using for advertising and more info just use a site called: Builtwith.com Then you won't have to make a post with completely inaccurate information. Accusing them of being 'lazy'. There would be dozens of brandable marketplaces if it was as easy and lazy as you assume. But there are only 3.

@slimjim270 Your info is interesting, however you are trying to compare apples to oranges. If you were able to post the same exact names on each site: example.com(listed on all 3) then your analysis would be more valid. However, you can only list one example.com at one site, not at all three sites. Each domain is unique, so if you have 10 domains at each site, and sell more at one site, its irrelevant. Comparing sales of unique domains at different marketplaces is in no way consistent. However, your time frames are valid and match my data.

Furthermore SilmJim, I am shocked you are so intense about changing how someone runs their business. Sounds like you should TRY to start your own domain marketplace. As stated above, there are many reasons there is NOT dozens of brandable marketplaces. A suggestion is one thing, But to try and hire logo designers for someone else's business is mind boggling. I understand you just want to help, but there is a line. And IMO you are crossing that line when you try to hire designers for someone else's business. But if BrandBucket gave you permission thats different. But you are wasting logo designers time if you can't hire them and are asking them just for your research. Sorry to be so frank, i do like your time line research, but todays post was shocking.

 

[slimjim270]

@MrHappy101 Brandbucket advertises heavily. Their Adsense ads are everywhere. Social media and emails are basic methods that are automatic and completely obvious. If you want to know about what websites are using for advertising and more info just use a site called: Builtwith.com Then you won't have to make a post with completely inaccurate information. Accusing them of being 'lazy'. There would be dozens of brandable marketplaces if it was as easy and lazy as you assume. But there are only 3.

@slimjim270 Your info is interesting, however you are trying to compare apples to oranges. If you were able to post the same exact names on each site: example.com(listed on all 3) then your analysis would be more valid. However, you can only list one example.com at one site, not at all three sites. Each domain is unique, so if you have 10 domains at each site, and sell more at one site, its irrelevant. Comparing sales of unique domains at different marketplaces is in no way consistent. However, your time frames are valid and match my data.

Furthermore SilmJim, I am shocked you are so intense about changing how someone runs their business. Sounds like you should TRY to start your own domain marketplace. As stated above, there are many reasons there is NOT dozens of brandable marketplaces. A suggestion is one thing, But to try and hire logo designers for someone else's business is mind boggling. I understand you just want to help, but there is a line. And IMO you are crossing that line when you try to hire designers for someone else's business. But if BrandBucket gave you permission thats different. But you are wasting logo designers time if you can't hire them and are asking them just for your research. Sorry to be so frank, i do like your time line research, but todays post was shocking.

@Jahfree -

Points taken.

Appreciate your candor. Glad you call out what you find of value (and also what you disagree with and find no value).

-Jim

ps: Yes, forums are a great place to share/engage in discussions. A bit taken back that you found my post shocking. That was not my intent. I was simply trying to share my thoughts on the topic and apologize if I somehow offended you.

 

[Domainzy]

@slimjim270 Im not offended just surprised.(and you might be suppressed if someone tried to hire designers for your business) I totally see your trying to help. But also i think the beauty of BB/BR/Namer is that they slow down the the process. If they speed up the process too much, then all names will be diluted and too much clutter as well. When only a limited amount of names show up on the front page, its better for everyone.

I too would like all my names accepted with instant logos posted fast, but i too get bummed when my listing is only on the front page for half a day. Classic want my cake and eat it! So I'm very happy with the slow process. Its actually improves the exposure of each name.

I 100% agree with you that we should suggest, that they give a generic reason why names are not accepted, so we as sellers can improve our submissions.

Cheers!

 

[slimjim270]

@slimjim270 Im not offended just surprised.(and you might be suppressed if someone tried to hire designers for your business) I totally see your trying to help. But also i think the beauty of BB/BR/Namer is that they slow down the the process. If they speed up the process too much, then all names will be diluted and too much clutter as well. When only a limited amount of names show up on the front page, its better for everyone.

I too would like all my names accepted with instant logos posted fast, but i too get bummed when my listing is only on the front page for half a day. Classic want my cake and eat it! So I'm very happy with the slow process. Its actually improves the exposure of each name.

I 100% agree with you that we should suggest, that they give a generic reason why names are not accepted, so we as sellers can improve our submissions.

Cheers!

@Jahfree -

Thanks for your follow-up. (much appreciated)

After re-reading your earlier post... I realize I failed to mention in my "designer" post that the 3 local designers I spoke with last week were not cold-calls. They are all designers that I have previously hired in the past 20 years for a variety of projects and are professionals that I personally know.

Yes, I definitely agree with Jahfree that cold-calling a designer strictly for "research" purposes would have been brass and not respectful of their time... to clarify... these are all known associates that I called and I was asking them their opinion on the topic to become better educated to what I see is an exciting marketplace... and also to share the conversation takeaways with folks on this forum.

Also, while having them on the phone, I inquired if they might be interested in applying (not through me) but through the BrandBucket site (proper application process) as they are talented individuals.

Appreciate the respectful/insightful dialogue on this forum. Thanks everyone.

-Jim

 

[namecloud]

@namecloud -

"Brandables" is a wide category. I assessed the market and decided to focus on (3) areas (5L, Rhymes, Tailgating). Others have success with TwoWord combos. I seem 2W challenged.

5L - 2L, 3L, 4L are all already taken for hand-reg. I researched a variety of sales and started focusing on 5L's. I wrote a software tool to help automate the process where I enter the 1st 3 letters and the tool auto-displays on the screen all combinations of available 5L's where the last 2 characters have at least 1 vowel for the 3 letter seed entered. I create a short list, then have my 5th grade daughter read them out loud to me. If she pronounces one on my short-list differently than I did originally, I immediately line it out. I then print a list and ask her to line out 7-10 that she "dislikes". Independently, I do the same. If we have any "dislike" overlap, I immediately remove the domains from the short list. We then both (independently) circle 5 that we "like". If we both overlap, I hand-reg them. Let me be the 1st to say... "yes, I am not always smarter than a 5th grader".

Rhymes - Great area of success. I compiled a list of 2-3 letter vowel sounds and wrote a software tool to blend a 3-5 letter "seed" word with the list. Rhymes are easy to remember / easy to pronounce. Based on research I did of 4-5 sites that I track, rhymes appear to be in demand by buyers.

Tailgaiting - I compiled a list of 200+ common endings - from domains that have sold on 4-5 sites that I track sales. I use an Excel file on this one where I enter a 2-4 letter beginning and glance through the "tail" combinations. I then cut/paste my short list in my registrars Bulk Entry window for availability. I then ask my "Phonics Master" (5th grade daughter) to tell which 5 she "dislikes" and which 5 she likes best of those available for hand-reg. You may laugh, but she's dead on consistent 80% of the time with those I was considering before asking her insight. A good sign when 2 demographics pronounce a name consistently.

Finally, I primarily focus on 5L - 9L names. The selection process is subjective. The tools help with the objective side of automation.

This is not a "get rich quick" game for me. I am acquiring domains as an investment - to hold for when the 5L, 6L, and 7L's start to become thin in 3-4 years and even more difficult to acquire via hand-reg. In my opinion, this is like 1955 double die pennies (prices will rise over time as availability of a limited supply decreases as others take them out of circulation).

Let me know if this was helpful...

-Jim

Wow. You proved it!
I now have a blueprint to follow
but I'm just looking for a quick flip
for $800+ profit before having the good
patience of a long term investor.
Listing on BB will take too long.
I've got a domain DermSleek which I think
might fit a skincare product but think it will take long to make a flip
Just outta ideas and don't wanna be on a reg spree.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Solution:

I see 4 solutions.

1) BrandBucket (Margot) hires a full time graphics artist to address the process bottleneck.

2) I (we) personally hire graphics artist to do our own designs, apply to BrandBucket for a Designer account, and submit the logos under our own Designer account. I (we) carry the cash-flow burden of paying up front and waiting for "winner" logo payments to off-set our out of pocket for the logos.

3) I (we) wait patiently for the logos to be designed under the current timeline.

4) I (we) consider other marketplaces. [sales, not emotions, will dictate my direction - I am testing 3 marketplaces over the next 6 months - BrandBucket/Brandroot/Namerific - then will adjust my submission volume proportionately to the one that sells the highest sales rate, will receive a higher % percentage of submissions]

How about another one:

5) be given the ability to choose no logo. Offer a different sales fee percentage for thos maybe? Dont know. But why do we need a logo at all? Sure they look great but I have to wonder how many businesses which buy these names already have a) a graphic artist at their disposal and/or b) their own logo/color swatch/font selection etc.. I would be willing to guess a good percentage discard the logo. I'd forgo a logo design to close the gap on a 48 day lag. To wait f few extra days to get the logo is one thing, but its almost 7 week as your analysis shows. I dont want to submit any names there just because of that. .

 

[AlexPaymer]

Patience is on of the key's to success.