alert DAN.COM cancel the deal and not transfer domain after BIN payment

[enamebroker]

I bought one domain by BIN via DAN.COM and waited for domain transfer. And DAN cancelled this transaction and said the domain is not owned by the reseller. I can't believe it. How to deal with this matter? See attached photo.

 

[Fayaz Ahmed]

Why are you guys hitting buy without typing it into a browser/checking name servers? You had to type it on DAN internal search to find it correct?

As a buyer you have to do your homework too. I bought on Afternic same thing happened twice now I always check the whois and nameservers.

You are absolutely right.

I too have made mistakes in the past, and later learned to check at least the following six things while buying a name:

1. Whois info.
2. Where the landing page leads to.
3. Spam status of the name.
4. Malware status of the name.
5. Direct Trademark violation.
6. Is any marketplace selling the same name at a lower price?

Perhaps there are more. But these are the bare minimum IMHO.

Happy domaining
Fayaz.

 

[johnn]

You are confusing between marketplaces and registrars.
There are marketplaces inside registrars (Godaddy, Sav, etc...) and yes this will not happen if you buy from marketplace from the the registrar. It has nothing to do with China or not China.

 

[Fayaz Ahmed]

I've noticed Afternic puts domains in Review if:

1. The domain in question is expired.
2. The domain is transferred to a different registrar.

DAN should implement something similar.
If a seller has hundreds of domains, let alone thousands, it's easy to miss a few updates.

However, AFAIK, if a domain is transferred within the same registrar with domain privacy on, Afternic probably doesn't put it in Review (please correct me if I'm wrong about this).

 

[DigiNames]

This happens all the time. You get a refund. If the person doesn’t own the domain, there isn’t much else you can do.

 

[draco]

Not much you can do. Judging by the email you received, the Seller did own it at one time. Dan has no way to verify if a Seller still owns a certain domain. Hopefully Dan will take action against the Seller for not removing the domain from their inventory when they sold it.

 

[bmugford]

Yeah, it happens. I have had many deals canceled as well.

Brad

 

[xynames]

It can happen with any market place: Afternic, Sedo, GD, etc...
The owner listed everywhere and sold in one place but forgot to remove the listing.

Assuming your seller was an honest but not diligent seller who actually owned the domain but had already sold it elsewhere, I talked about this very issue here.

Having a Buy it Now at more than one marketplace for the same domain could lead to conflicts and the inability to deliver the domain.

 

[johnn]

It can happen with any market place: Afternic, Sedo, GD, etc...
The owner listed everywhere and sold in one place but forgot to remove the listing.

 

[forge]

Right -- the claim that Dan (or any marketplace) has no way to verify if a seller still owns a given domain is simply not true.

It's just not worth their while to do so proactively, apparently.

 

[Fayaz Ahmed]

@Fayaz Ahmed last thing that is needed is more regulations if you think a deal is too good to be true just contact dan.com support they will help you confirm if the domain is actually owned by the seller(before paying for it)

No I didn't mean regulation. I meant in the seller account Afternic implements this.

This way it's much easier to detect if there is an expired, transferred domain within the account and then delete it from the account.

 

[biggie]

Interesting point

Hi

the point was that, the amount is not a substantial loss, as stated.

it was preventable, and in the scheme of things, such amounts are either forgotten over the lifetime of a domainer or the cost is expensed as a learning experience.

just saying...

imo...

 

[silentg]

Not surprised.

I reported a seller on March 13 who was listing domains they don't own. The seller's page is still active. They list all domains that are in auction at other marketplaces.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Its not rocket science to require verification for listing domains on marketplaces. I do not know why in 2023 we're still having this issue. It gives the industry a black eye.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

do u seriously think they would not all implement it if it was easy to do. for every problem like this for buyer and seller they have to waste time too.

Do I think they would not implement it if it was easy to do? Short answer, yes.

I have been around the block of life enough times to have seen some very stupid things never get fixed. They remain broken for years and years until it becomes someone else's problem. The problem keeps getting kicked that can down the road. I dont think it matters if it were easy or hard to implement. The question is, does anyone really want to give time to this issue? I guess its a matter of their business agenda...

 

[Jv1999]

The charges are from their country’s bank not from DAN or the would be seller. Take it up with the bank.

Maybe next time they should do their homework and verify beforehand before hitting BIN on any domain anywhere they find via an internal search. There are many outdated listings everywhere.

So... you turned into the Grinch of NP since I've been gone I see

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I agree there should be verification for all initial listings.

And there should be regular check and if a name has transferred registrars or expired the listing should need to be reactivated.

Dan should require their verification on all listings. It does work well.

Afternic should add initial verification, in my opinion. They say in another thread it is the highest priority addition and coming soon.

The Afternic way of checking for registrar changes should be used by Dan and something similar instituted at Sedo.

One advantage of verification is it not only freezes out bad actors listing names they don't own, and careless owners leaving up names they used to own, but it also detects errors in listings. More than once I had an error in submitting a name at Sedo, and it did not verify of course. Without verification, the incorrect name could get listed on the marketplace.

It is important that verification apply to all, and no exemptions for the big outfits.

But currently, if want to be absolutely sure of getting a name, the registrar marketplace, if it is listed there, is the best option. I have a couple of times had people ignore the lander marketplace and go seek it out on a registrar marketplace where it was already listed. There the transfer is automatic and generally immediate (after funds confirmation).

Sorry this happened to OP, but this does happen regularly at various marketplaces.

Every time a sale fails, it is bad for the domain industry overall.

-Bob

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

It can happen with any market place: Afternic, Sedo, GD, etc...
The owner listed everywhere and sold in one place but forgot to remove the listing.

Sedo has up front MANDATORY verification in place, and the problem seems to be far less of an issue there--at least for the initial listings. Afternic/GD/Dan do not require verification up front for the initial listings.

You are really spot on about the concern about some listings that were forgotten and not removed. Sedo's verification up front, for example, will not avoid the issue of domains that have expired or been sold since listing. It remains unclear whether they do this as well. For all marketplaces, it probably is a good idea.

My experience has been that my domains were intentionally being listed by others, without permission and clearly without any verifcation by DAN or Afternic. They were longstanding ownerships by me The listings were clearly fraudsters trying to sell domains as if they owned them. In fact, my domains listed by one account would be removed, and then the same names reappear under another account.

When the fraudster tries to sell the domain, the sale fails unless they can quickly buy it from the actual owner (presumably at a lower price) and then do the transfer. This is called domain "front running," and apparently can work if the actual owner is using Fast Transfer or Sedo MLS premium transfer service.

Verification that the domains are actually owned by those listing them is important, and not just at the time of initial listing but also especially before a sale. It's sad that you had to go through this additional hassle.

Domains listed by others who do not actually own them is a widespread, well-known, recurrent problem. And there is no signs that it is going to be fixed any time soon.

 

[karmaco]

Why are you guys hitting buy without typing it into a browser/checking name servers? You had to type it on DAN internal search to find it correct?

As a buyer you have to do your homework too. I bought on Afternic same thing happened twice now I always check the whois and nameservers.

 

[Moj]

I offer 1000$ for a domain and turkis seller accepte my offer and i have paid instantly but after 9 days seller don't transfer domain and cancel the transfer by Dan.
But Dan don't give him any punishment.

 

[draco]

Its not rocket science to require verification for listing domains on marketplaces. I do not know why in 2023 we're still having this issue. It gives the industry a black eye.

Judging by the email they received from Dan, they did own the domain at one point. The Seller didn't remove the domain from Dan after they sold it. I'm not aware of any marketplace that does reverification, unless the new owner tries to list it on that marketplace. With whois privacy, reverification becomes more difficult. I suppose if a marketplace really wanted to, they could require you to keep a TXT record and repeatedly check it.

 

[noneisnone]

Please consider demanding that you be reimbursed for those additional charges. Don't be afraid of asking DAN and GoDaddy, that owns them, to act responsibly. After all, even if this happened in the past, you now have had to go through the experience again--although at least apparently without the financial loss.

One NP member did report that a different marketplace did demand that the seller pay a fine for not being able to produce the domain with a sale. In that case, it appeared that the domain was sold in two places for BIN. The losing BIN marketplace, unable to make the sale due to it being sold by the owner elsewhere, did not take it lightly.

Also, do not be afraid to post your experience on TrustPilot. This all the more encourages Dan and GoDaddy to act in good faith, to at least reimburse you for the additional costs incurred by the previous mishap. And, hopefully they would try to deal with this problem more seriously in the future. After all, it would presumbly not be difficult for listings to be verified BEFORE the sale.

i honestly don't like the back and forth or the drama of it all but your words motivated me i sent them an email if they fuck up badly i will be making my own thread on namepros hope you guys got my back on this ^^ just checked by bank account the amount that i lost is 52.79$ but once again it is more about the principal

 

[noneisnone]

That is a significant amount of money. Is that what you lost from the previous failed transaction, or this most recent one?

an old failed transaction almost a month old got in touch with support they will get back to me after getting in touch with the finance department ^^

 

[tonyk2000]

So, this is what happens since Dan allows everybody to list anything without proper verification (if the domain is not in the system yet). OMG, what should happen for this to be changed? Both on DAN and Afternic? OK, they have merchant accounts to accept credit cards. With merchant accounts, there are always T&C - and afaik those terms are supposed to limit a number of chargebacks or refunds for the merchant account to remain active and in good standing. Maybe GoDaddy, as the new owner of DAN, should check how their new property - dan - operates in the aspect of their merchant account and is it stable and in good standing? And, @GoDaddy , what about enforcing Dan to implement ownership verification for all domains? While this may be complicated on afternic, in dan case this should be fast and easy. Just change the code applying existing verification to all domains one tries to add, not exclusively to conflicting ones [current scheme]??
@James Iles

 

[enamebroker]

Validate the effectiveness of the domain from DAN in your next deal. It is the solution from DAN.COM

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Show attachment 235116
Validate the effectiveness of the domain from DAN in your next deal. It is the solution from DAN.COM

Very, very sad statement.

It took very little time for me to verify that a large number of their domains weren't even registered.

If they cannot run a script to eliminate these listings, then perhaps they need to upgrade their fraud and security technology. There really is no excuse for a company to allow fraudulent activity.

In the specific case of unregistered domains, the sad truth is that the seller would likely be able to get away with this. Once receiving the bid or BIN, all the seller would need to do is buy the domain directly from any registrar. Then, they can get away with defrauding the buyer of potentially hundreds or even thousands of dollars, as they can actually present the domain to them for a push transfer.

And, keep in mind, there are those honest sellers like many of you. You pay your regular renewals for the opportunity to sell your domains. Well, why bother doing the renewals for some of them? Right now, it appears that you can simply leave the domain on your account, let it expire, and then sell if for a substantial profit if a buyer comes along.

Interesting response from DAN, indeed.