discuss Hello Sir to You A-Hole in 10 emails or less

[MapleDots]

I received an email inquiry on a nice two word .com and the initial offer was $75

Since I list a lot of my domains at godaddy with a $20 opening bid I am used to getting lowball offers and I have a policy to simply ignore them. The above mentioned email was no exception and I did not even think about it, I simply pressed delete.

Over the course of the next few days I received numerous inquiries from 3 different email addresses on the same domain. Each time the offer was under $100 with an inquiry of "How Much". I have an internal policy that I do not respond to offers under $1000 so I figured the guy would eventually get the point and up his offer. Well I was wrong, no higher offer came, but the emails continued. The first one started with sir and the last one called me an A-Hole.

The tone of the emails got more irate with each one. Having never conversed with the guy I was astonished at the time and effort put into the emails. He seemed to be having a conversation with himself telling me why he needed the domain, his history, and even how many kids he had. Yet he left out anything that could identify him or something that would indicate to me that he was a serious end user.

Anyways.... long story short, I just received another email with some very colorful language, not sure if that is supposed to intimidate me into responding or to give him his desired $75 sale.

PS. I make it very clear on my website that $1000 is the minimum bid on my domains so I don't really get where all the anger is coming from.

 

[NicTraders]

MD has stated that his website makes it clear that the minimum bid is $1000, so I guess it's not completely misleading, but people don't always stop and read the small print.

It's not in the fine print - the stated minimum is in the actual field where the buyer has to type his offer. But there is a fair chance that despite what the text says, since there is no validation actually stopping him entering his offer maybe he thinks it doesn't apply...

 

[NicTraders]

What I’m currently testing is min offer $500 as HTML5 validation without showing a placeholder (or help text) so that buyer see the error when entered below $500, but they don’t know $500 is my min offer upfront.

Interesting. Does this allow you to capture what offer they typed prior to being alerted to the minimum?

 

[MapleDots]

It's not in the fine print - the stated minimum is in the actual field where the buyer has to type his offer. But there is a fair chance that despite what the text says, since there is no validation actually stopping him entering his offer maybe he thinks it doesn't apply...

You're one of the first guys that sees it.
The guy had to type over my minimum offer requirement of $1000 to make his offer for $75 bucks.

Regardless of how many times he does that he is NOT going to get a response from me.

I have removed all the fluff and bull from my site, there are no fancy logos or lander pages. It is simple in two points. You must offer $1000 and you must be the end user, I do not deal with middle men.

I don't know how I can be any more clear and that is why I made the opening post. The guy knows what my minimum is but thinks if he sends 10 emails offering $75 he can goat me into responding.

The Godaddy thing that everyone is harping on is a separate issue and I will discuss that in my next post.

 

[uzver]

Interesting. Does this allow you to capture what offer they typed prior to being alerted to the minimum?

It can be done, but I don't need it here. What value does it bring to know the buyer initially submitted $100 offer, before increasing it to my minimum? Instead, I'm hoping the buyer will submit something higher than my minimum offer since he doesn't know the minimum.

What I do track is all offers that a visitor submitted for the domain (what offers on what domains, what domains viewed – how many times and when). So the user can change names, emails, but I still know what he did.

 

[MapleDots]

Now there is a secret sauce I have not discussed yet and I will do that now....

I participate in a number of marketplaces and always set my prices at very low values. I traditionally do not respond if the offer is below $1000. I set the values low so the domains at least get views and quite honestly the domainers that take offence to that don't really bother me. My target is NOT domainers so that part does not weigh highly into my decision making process.

I do it because the low ballers will make the offers, but I don't even see those, they go into a catch all folder and unless I look I don't see them. If I get a marketplace response for over 1k I engage the client in a prompt and courteous manner.

Now why do I set it low?

The secret sauce for me.....

As I said before, it allows me to track interest when I go to renew, but when the someone offers $25 bucks 3 or 4 times and gets no response he may just decide to type the url into the browser and that is where I prefer to engage a client.

My website makes it clear you have to reply using my form and the form outlines my terms.

Now what some of the posters here are missing is that marketplaces are nice but for larger sales the commission can be significant. Listing a domain with a low opening bid will draw interest and if someone is not comfortable making an offer via the marketplace they have the option of doing so through the lander.

In a lot of cases the person making the offer will think... that's a great domain, why is it listed so low?
Next step they type it into the URL bar and they see what my minimum offer is.

I have listed at marketplaces with up to 10k minimums but it rarely engages a prospective client. Setting low minimums will sometimes bring traffic to my lander and even there I have a low minimum of 1K to keep interest going. I really have no intention of selling my better domains for 1k but at least it engages the client and we can open dialogue.

Sure that might not work for everyone here but it is how I run my business., it is something that works for me and I have no plans of changing. It's really no different from everyone that puts no price on a domain, technically you could argue the opening price is $1 so I don't see why some folks are getting so excited.

Anyways.... there you have it.

Unlike a lot of landers, I stripped my site of everything but the ability to make an offer. No B.S. no salesmanship, no fancy logos. You are either interested in the domain or not, nothing more really needs to be said or done.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I do see how clearly the $1000 is on your form @MapleDots , although I still think a 10 second answer is the right thing to do.

I have a related question. Your form also lists as required a number of other things, including business name and a business email address and the current website of the person making the offer. Surely there are cases where the person making the query honestly does not have all of those required elements. I am thinking for example an NGO that is not a business, someone who has an idea and is securing the name first but does not currently have a business registered or website, a philanthropist considering starting up a foundation, etc. If an offer does not have all of the things listed as essential do you ignore it or send a message asking for more information, or simply respond to offer. That is if a person submitted a $1000 offer but left blank the business name and existing website, would you acknowledge it?

Also, it seems to me your final field is not clear. It says that additional comment is required, and like the $1000 the field is filled in with instruction f how it is to be used, but is that meant to be they must tell you how it is to be used. My feeling is really that is none of my business. When I go to the lumber store they don't ask me what I am planning to build! If I had a great idea and was securing the domain name first I would not tell you my plans, just out of fear someone else would jump on same idea.

Thanks for all of the responses in the thread MapleDots. Even though you have not convinced me personally, you have made me think about both sides of these issues, and that is all good. I think more and more are considering their own landers, and asking questions such as what should be minimum offer and what information should be asked.

You have been successful and it is efficient and works for you. In an age where there is more and more focus on limits on third party holding our data, I am wondering if your form is possibly treading too far into asking too much.

Bob

 

[MapleDots]

Also, it seems to me your final field is not clear. It says that additional comment is required,

Hey Bob, that field is clearly marked. "intended use for domain"

I am flexible with anything and everything, as long as your opening bid meets my term of a 1k minimum.
I made that decision after hours and hours of emails with people over a few hundred dollars. That is why I opened the topic, you can clearly see the pittance ($75) offered generated a number of emails. Had he started by saying 1k I would have come back with a yes, no, or I need this amount. Pretty basic stuff.

PS. I can't go into a lumber store and pick a mountain of your best lumber and ask you to sell it for $75. Chances are the salesman will just laugh at me and continue serving a real client.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Hey Bob, that field is clearly marked. "intended use for domain"

Thanks for reply. What I meant about unclear was the title of the field seemed to imply any kind of additional comment, but the pre-fill listed specifically end use, so it was not clear to me, at least (but many things are not clear to me ) whether it had to be that, or I could comment on something else.

PS. I can't go into a lumber store and pick a mountain of your best lumber and ask you to sell it for $75.

My grandson gets lumber for free every time they visit the lumber store. And they only occasionally ask him what he plans to build with it! You really are visiting the wrong lumber stores! (a free scrap bin, which is a nice service from end cuts for crafters and kids.)

But my point was more general, even if I submitted say a $15,000 offer, your form seems to require I tell you what I am going to do with the domain name and what domain name I am currently using. I would object to that. I might just be me, but I think some others would too. Anyway, don't want to go off topic, just expressing an opinion. You are saying you don't really insist on that information, but you do insist on the $1000 minimum, but both are listed as required on your form. How is the end user to know which are really essential? Maybe the $1000 is not really required too?

I think the key question is at what level should one respond because the offer might grow to an acceptable one. I recall anecdotes on NamePros of things starting $$ and eventually getting (at least $$$$). I suspect there are many cases of low $$$ that got to $$$$ or even $$$$$. Now true those all require wasted time in many cases.

In my opinion the standard offer should depend on the domain name, but you (and some others who have responded) seem to have a uniform cutoff.

Also, the second interesting question is how good a predictor of value is the number of $20 offers. Some have commented on that. Clearly it seems to work well for you. I admit I look at number of monthly visits on DAN. Probably number of $20 offers is a better predictor, although both are relevant, I think.

Bob

 

[Name Trader]

Just in case I had not made it obvious, I was not serious with that title. I personally think something like "Using Data From Low Offers" might have worked.
Anyway @MapleDots certainly got interest with his title, and a good discussion.
Bob

Neither was I with my reply

 

[branding]

PS. I can't go into a lumber store and pick a mountain of your best lumber and ask you to sell it for $75. Chances are the salesman will just laugh at me

Maybe. But if that same lumberstore is selling the same lumber at another venue at $20 offer I might be inclined to think he's pulling a quick one by forcing me to make a 1K minimum offer in his flagship store

I get why you do it, nothing wrong with that from your perspective and the data is a big plus. Personally, I respond to every inquiry, either custom email or by template. Couple of mails a day isn't gonna break my schedule.

 

[Name Trader]

Show attachment 140755The Godaddy thing that everyone is harping on is a separate issue and I will discuss that in my next post.

Great. I always knew that your website offers and your GoDaddy offers were 2 different issues. I understand that these separate issues are intermingled here. I think what you do/are doing on your own website, is up to you, and seems reasonable enough to me. Although from reading the replies here, there might be room for some improvement. Which might be agreed/disagreed. Which is why I haven't addressed it here.

If I haven't made it clear, I'm only referring to your GoDaddy offers. So I'm looking forward to your next post

 

[MapleDots]

If I haven't made it clear, I'm only referring to your GoDaddy offers. So I'm looking forward to your next post

I already responded to that:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...10-emails-or-less.1171255/page-3#post-7572805

Not really any more to say because technically I should open a new topic for that, it really is two different topics.

That said I'm not motivated enough to do so because I've said most everything I wanted to say about that.

In the end it boils down to the fact that everyone runs their business in a way that works for them. I don't sell any of the new gTLD's but that does not mean someone else cannot. It does not make me right or better than the other guy, it just means we run our business in a different way.

That said, I am always open to some advice from the pros so if you have any I would be more than happy to listen.

 

[Name Trader]

Now there is a secret sauce I have not discussed yet and I will do that now....

I participate in a number of marketplaces and always set my prices at very low values. I traditionally do not respond if the offer is below $1000. I set the values low so the domains at least get views and quite honestly the domainers that take offence to that don't really bother me. My target is NOT domainers so that part does not weigh highly into my decision making process.

I do it because the low ballers will make the offers, but I don't even see those, they go into a catch all folder and unless I look I don't see them. If I get a marketplace response for over 1k I engage the client in a prompt and courteous manner.

Now why do I set it low?

The secret sauce for me.....

As I said before, it allows me to track interest when I go to renew, but when the someone offers $25 bucks 3 or 4 times and gets no response he may just decide to type the url into the browser and that is where I prefer to engage a client.

So, you are setting low minimum offers, so that after they've made offers 3 or 4 times and get no response, they type the domain in their browser. Well I've got news for you. If you set your minimum offer to $1000. They are going to do the same thing. It's a tenuous logic for me. The problem is, that these people are low-ballers. Which has lead to the incident you described.

As an afterthought, An interesting question you might add to your form might be "Where did you first learn about this domain was For Sale?"

 

[NicTraders]

It can be done, but I don't need it here. What value does it bring to know the buyer initially submitted $100 offer, before increasing it to my minimum? Instead, I'm hoping the buyer will submit something higher than my minimum offer since he doesn't know the minimum.

What I do track is all offers that a visitor submitted for the domain (what offers on what domains, what domains viewed – how many times and when). So the user can change names, emails, but I still know what he did.

It doesn't bring much value - I was just wondering. I think the only real value (it might bring) is an insight into the psyche of how people make offers:
a) Did they type 20, then 100, then 500 to finally discover that it would accept a $500 offer. Thus showing that they were always willing to offer $500 but were trying to get it cheap.
b) Did they type 20, then 50 then abandon the offer altogether, thus indicating that they weren't prepared to spend more money anyway.
So there is (potentially) data to be gleaned, but I can't imagine anyone could be bothered analysing those stats (except @Bob Hawkes of course!)...

 

[uzver]

It doesn't bring much value - I was just wondering. I think the only real value (it might bring) is an insight into the psyche of how people make offers:
a) Did they type 20, then 100, then 500 to finally discover that it would accept a $500 offer. Thus showing that they were always willing to offer $500 but were trying to get it cheap.
b) Did they type 20, then 50 then abandon the offer altogether, thus indicating that they weren't prepared to spend more money anyway.
So there is (potentially) data to be gleaned, but I can't imagine anyone could be bothered analysing those stats (except @Bob Hawkes of course!)...

It’s relatively easy to implement on the client side and see results in Google Analytics if this is what you’re after My portfolio size is not big enough to get sufficient amount of data.

As you your (a) item — I think the only true insight will be the first offer (attempt). With a vague error message like “Your offer doesn’t meet requirements” or “Please enter higher offer” you basically saying there is a “reserve” — he would start entering 20, 50, 200 until he finds out what the minimum offer is (what we do at auctions sometimes).

 

[uzver]

I participate in a number of marketplaces and always set my prices at very low values. I traditionally do not respond if the offer is below $1000. I set the values low so the domains at least get views and quite honestly the domainers that take offence to that don't really bother me. My target is NOT domainers so that part does not weigh highly into my decision making process.

I do it because the low ballers will make the offers, but I don't even see those, they go into a catch all folder and unless I look I don't see them. If I get a marketplace response for over 1k I engage the client in a prompt and courteous manner.

Speaking of Afternic price requests, do you ignore these too?

An email from Afternic says “To remain a robust marketplace of premium domain names for both buyers and sellers, we require
that every domain have a Floor Price and Buy Now Price within 48 hours of receiving a sales lead.”

And how do you catch (filter) emails in Gmail based on offer amount? The value can be above or below $1000, so string based filter doesn’t work, e.g. if subject contains $1000.

In a lot of cases the person making the offer will think... that's a great domain, why is it listed so low?
Next step they type it into the URL bar and they see what my minimum offer is.

I have listed at marketplaces with up to 10k minimums but it rarely engages a prospective client. Setting low minimums will sometimes bring traffic to my lander

How do you know this for sure? Just a guess or your buyers told you so?

I mean, when you get an offer on external marketplace and shortly after someone inquires on your website, you know the buyer is usually the same person. But how do you know that low min offer vs high min offer makes the difference in bringing the buyers to you lander? I used to think the opposite is true, so I wonder what your thoughts are.

 

[MapleDots]

An email from Afternic says “To remain a robust marketplace of premium domain names for both buyers and sellers, we require
that every domain have a Floor Price and Buy Now Price within 48 hours of receiving a sales lead.”

That is why I removed my domains from afternic, the requests were to many and in a lot of cases it said the buyer has not made an offer yet. Why would I engage without an offer? I really did not care for afternic at all.

 

[uzver]

That is why I removed my domains from afternic, the requests were to many and in a lot of cases it said the buyer has not made an offer yet. Why would I engage without an offer? I really did not care for afternic at all.

You’re obviously in a very strong financial position to make statements like this

For many (myself included), Afternic is a very important venue and greatly contributes to portfolio STR.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

So if I understand correctly the only three ways a user would find your names @MapleDots is by typing it in and getting to your form, or going to MD and reading through list of all your names, or via a GoDaddy search for domain and submitting an offer through them. Is that right?

If you wish to share, would be interesting to know roughly what fraction of sales start at GD vs your own.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[MapleDots]

So if I understand correctly the only three ways a user would find your names @MapleDots is by typing it in and getting to your form, or going to MD and reading through list of all your names, or via a GoDaddy search for domain and submitting an offer through them. Is that right?

If you wish to share, would be interesting to know roughly what fraction of sales start at GD vs your own.

Thanks,

Bob

I certainly do a lot more than that, there are many ways to find end users, and that is the key statement... find end users. I have 462 domains not listed on my site because they are targeted to specific end users. I look for businesses with bad domain names and then I find a more suitable alternative. I toss up a mock website and show the business how their brand new shiny domain could look.

On of my faves (which I had discussed here before) was using sub domains to target radio stations.

Example (made up)

104.5 CKJD uses 1045CKJD.com

I register 5CKJD.com and contact them with a targeted subdomain that looks like this...

104.5CKJD.com with the 104 being a sub domain.

Looks way better than 1045CKJD.com on a truck advertisement because now they can actually use the dot. I got that idea when I saw a Radio Truck in a parade and I thought the domain did not make sense without the dot.

Now the radio station can keep both domains but all their advertising vehicles can actually display

104.5CKJD.com

That is only one of the things I do and I am highly specialized in making fantastic domains using sub domains. I don't talk about that a lot because I don't want copy cats but as far as domain selling goes there seems to be quite a lack of imagination when it comes to sub domains. I have an entire other industry I target (sorry will not disclose) because it is quite a large source of income for me.

I cannot ever disclose that because way too many people will copy it.

It's ok to think domains but there is a heck of a lot of money left on the table with subdomains. They can be used as hacks and good money can be made selling them. My mapledots domains are just a small amount of my overall sales but even there I will often target my outbound, never bulk, always targeted to specific end users.

 

[Mister Funsky]

I certainly do a lot more than that, there are many ways to find end users, and that is the key statement... find end users. I have over 462 domains not listed on my site because they are targeted to specific end users. I look for businesses with bad domain names and then I find a more suitable alternative. I toss up a mock website and show the business how their brand new shiny domain could look.

On of my faves (which I had discussed here before) was using sub domains to target radio stations.

Example (made up)

104.5 CKJD uses 1045CKJD.com

I register 5CKJD.com and contact them with a targeted subdomain that looks like this...

104.5CKJD.com with the 104 being a sub domain.

Looks way better than 1045CKJD.com on a truck advertisement because now they can actually use the dot. I got that idea when I saw a Radio Truck in a parade and I thought the domain did not make sense without the dot.

Now the radio station can keep bot domains but all their advertising vehicles can actually display

104.5CKJD.com

That is only one of the things I do and I am highly specialized in making fantastic domains using sub domains. I don't talk about that a lot because I don't want copy cats but as far as domain selling goes there seems to be quite a lack of imagination when it comes to sub domains. I have an entire other industry I target (sorry will not disclose) which is quite a large source of income for me.

I cannot ever disclose that because way too many people will copy it.

It's ok to think domains but there is a heck of a lot of money left on the table with subdomains. They can be used as hacks and good money can be made selling them. My mapledots domains are just a small amount of my overall sales but even there I will often target my outbound, never bulk, always targeted to specific end users.

Quite a few nuggets of gold buried in this post...I am sure it will help more than a few domainers in their efforts...myself included.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for the great creative idea of names with a dot and subdomains @MapleDots. While I have long wondered why subdomains are not used more (outside government and educational institutions that use them a lot), this idea never occurred to me. Already as @Mister Funsky calls it "nuggets of gold" from your post, and it is not even 7 am here yet. My good idea from NamePros of the day came early! Thank you.

I did realize you do various initiatives beyond simple listing. My question was just whether you had them listed somewhere beyond GD that someone searching for your domain would find them. I tried a couple of your domains and indeed they show up on GD (I was really tempted to put in a $20 offer on your 2L .ca ) and not on Afternic (their integration always confuses me so I was not sure). However, as services like Dofo become the one stop place to search for domain names across many marketplaces, I think there is virtue in being listed one place that Dofo picks up. I checked two of your domains there and the only option it gives me is hire a broker, whereas if it was listed at any one of Afternic, DAN, Epik, Sedo, Dynadot, NameSilo, Namecheap etc. a link to the offer page would have been presented. Now I do realize that most will enter it in URL and find you, but wonder if you are missing out on same queries from people searching for something similar to your domain name?

Thanks again for the dot subdomain trick!

Bob

 

[MapleDots]

Thanks for the great creative idea of names with a dot and subdomains @MapleDots. While I have long wondered why subdomains are not used more (outside government and educational institutions that use them a lot), this idea never occurred to me. Already as @Mister Funsky calls it "nuggets of gold" from your post, and it is not even 7 am here yet. My good idea from NamePros of the day came early! Thank you.

I did realize you do various initiatives beyond simple listing. My question was just whether you had them listed somewhere beyond GD that someone searching for your domain would find them. I tried a couple of your domains and indeed they show up on GD (I was really tempted to put in a $20 offer on your 2L .ca ) and not on Afternic (their integration always confuses me so I was not sure). However, as services like Dofo become the one stop place to search for domain names across many marketplaces, I think there is virtue in being listed one place that Dofo picks up. I checked two of your domains there and the only option it gives me is hire a broker, whereas if it was listed at any one of Afternic, DAN, Epik, Sedo, Dynadot, NameSilo, Namecheap etc. a link to the offer page would have been presented. Now I do realize that most will enter it in URL and find you, but wonder if you are missing out on same queries from people searching for something similar to your domain name?

Thanks again for the dot subdomain trick!

Bob

I'm a lone wolf, I do most everything in house, I don't like paying commissions so I use marketplaces quite sparingly. My outbound is what I rely on the most.

I even have my own merchant account so I don't have to pay escrow charges.
Commissions and fees add up very fast and I'm a stickler for paying as little as possible.

 

[MapleDots]

Quite a few nuggets of gold buried in this post...I am sure it will help more than a few domainers in their efforts...myself included.

I posted about the sub domain aspect a while back
https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...ill-no-sales-what-to-do.1010608/#post-6082213

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I'm a lone wolf

You should give a new gTLD a try and brand on LoneWolf.Domains (it's available)
(LoneWolf is gone in .ca)

Marking your own trail is good, and thank you for sharing so much with NamePros.

Have a good day.

Bob