More Fraudulent Bidding Activity at DropCatch.com

[Arca]

DropCatch.com just can't get rid of fraudulent bidding activity on their platform. Fraudulent bidders bid up prices, don’t pay when they win, and then the names are re-auctioned again and again until a legit bidder wins.

It is a win-win system for DropCatch. If the fraudulent bidders bid up a legit bidder, DC cash out even more thanks to the fraudulent bidder driving up the price beyond where it would have gone with only legit bidders. If the fraudulent bidder wins, they simply hold and re-auction the name over and over until they get a legit bidder that pays. It's a problematic system for regular bidders, because before these fraudulent bid handles get suspended, they bid up legit bidders in various auctions.

DropCatch's system enables them to get paid for names even with so many fraudulent non-paying bidders on their platform. But even with this auction restarting system in place, there are simply so many fraudulent bidders that they sometimes struggle to find a legit winner, despite multipe re-auctions. Take CannaMarket.com. The domain has already been won by THREE DIFFERENT fraudulent bidders. The first winner, in the original auction, was fraudulent. The name was re-auctioned. The second winner was fraudulent. The name was re-auctioned. The third winner was fraudulent (he bid the name up to $4K). When a name can score a triple fraudulent bidder combo streak on their platform, with no legit winner in sight, it’s clear that there is something wrong with how their system works. They are currently holding cannamarket.com in a dropcatch.com holding account, and I wonder whether they will try to re-auction the name a fourth time, or just let it drop since this is obviously a bad look for them when three out of three attempts of auctioning off the name ended up with fraudulent bidding activity (and who is going to be brave enough to bid against all the fraudulent bidders in a fourth auction? This name is apparently a fraud magnet).

Then there was this auction for lumeo.com recently (it was bid up to $14K by a bidder that most likely is fraudulent, and the winner has not yet paid, and the payment deadline passed a few days ago). How long until this name gets re-auctioned due to fraudulent bidding activity?

I often get emails from dropcatch saying "due to complications involving potentially fraudulent activity, the following auctions you had participated in are being restarted". A quick search shows an inbox full of emails notifying me of fraudulent bidding activity and auctions being restarted:

I just received another one today. It contained another SEVEN auction names that closed recently with fraudulent bidding activity:

cybercorp.com - Sold for $1251
sefin.com - Sold for $665
devlog.com - Sold for $343
thermair.com - Sold for $457
simplypretty.com - Sold for $515
finte.com - Sold for $350
kinovo.com - Sold for $330

All these auctions involved fraudulent bidding, and have now been restarted (you can go to dropcatch.com and bid on them right now). A quick visit to the dropcatch.com website shows a other restarted auctions as well, such as for evinite.com (sold for $142) and acercloud.com (sold for $370). Will legit bidders win these restarted auctions this time around?

DropCatch.com is very much like a game of hot potato, where fraudulent bidders bid up auctions and don't pay when they come out winning. There is a significant amount of auctions being restarted due to winners not paying up, when compared with other expired domains auctions platforms. The result is that legit bidders have to pay, literally, for the presence of so many fraudulent bidders on this platform that bid up the prices for legit bidders. Just an advice for everyone to be aware of this issue when participating in auctions at dropcatch.com.

 

[Michael]

1,5% Failed payments then ? give or take. Not that bad acutally

1.5% non-payment that haven't been re-auctioned yet. Add another 38 or so that have been re-auctioned already in half a year, plus an estimated 3 that are unknown, and you're at 2% on the nose. That's pretty much the number they already claimed publicly.

Still fantastic in my book, Flippa is wayyyy worse... but it sounds like they still want to improve on that already impressive number which is good to hear. I have tremendous respect for companies who are already doing a pretty awesome job but that still isn't good enough for them. Too many companies in this industry are mediocre and they're happy to coast.

 

[Arca]

Original auction results (cancelled due to non-paying winners):
goodfruits.com sold for $620
labee.com sold for $450
amagen.com sold for $669
skypop.com sold for $344
permanentrecords.com sold for $904

Restarted auction results:
goodfruits.com sold for $164
labee.com sold for $803
amagen.com sold for $445
skypop.com sold for $659
permanentrecords.com sold for $262

 

[wwwweb]

wnnrscrs is still actively participating in auctions daily despite seemingly not having paid for won auctions going back to at least 45 days ago. Come on DropCatch. What's going on?

It is no secret what is going on, for all those registry connections, and dominance in the marketplace Dropcatch needs to spend many of millions of dollars to stay on top. In doing so they need to generate massive revenue from Dropcatch, and that takes active bidders.

Losing xdaydreamx was a huge blow, right now ckrgksanrndghk, and leader are two of the most active bidders on dropcatch, they are relentless in their bidding. They keep the outbid notices flowing, and prices pretty fat. You are not going to score any deals, you really need to pay up. I can imagine their $25M annual renewal bill for HugeDomains is no walk in the park either, about $2.1 million per month.

@main goes back to the point, different people operate by a different set of rules, so nothing has been really addressed from the time of the owners posts last week, if you say their are outstanding auctions to be paid for, and this person's cart has not locked them out, all i ask is WHY NOT?

Maybe things are not as rosy as we think over there... We are seeing the implosion of Pheenix now also, where support has gone dormant, winning auctions are being pulled back for the owners own account, and many people are getting bad auth codes, Namejet has their own issues also that still need to be addressed. Namejet is looking to private sales moreso now, as it is getting harder to get good drops.

 

[tonyk2000]

It seems their whole scheme allows to maintain this number of registrars because of serving hugedomains AND dropcatch at the same time. Indeed, no private domainer (including Reberry brothers themselves before going public) did not yet find it profitable to maintain so many registrars for their internal needs exclusively. Similarly, no public dropcatcher did not yet find it profitable to set so many registrars for public dropcatching (recent failure of pheenix who voluntary dropped hundreds of their registrars is a perfect proof).

So, natural decrease in DropCatch auctions activity - most likely due to more domainers opening their eyes - and of course due to some accounts being really banned - may well change THE WHOLE scheme of how dropcatch/hugedomains are operating. It would be interesting to watch...

Isn't it time for DropCatch to realize that their setup of public auctions without obligatory prefunding is by itself vulnerable, that this is the root cause of all the problems, and change it?

 

[Arca]

The auction for this domain has been restarted due to a non-paying winner on Oct 29:

ahanalat.com $224

 

[Arca]

The auctions for these domains have been restarted due to fraudulent bidding activity on November 5:

unilogistics.com sold for $2,950
iside.com sold for $518
elizabethrichardson.com sold for $244

 

[Arca]

Addressing bidder WittyNut, who won and did not pay for 69 domains, @Jeff Reberry noted that "there was a glitch in our system which allowed this user to continue winning auctions, even though he had outstanding items in his shopping cart."

However, the continued activity of wnnrscrs casts doubt on this explanation. It is hard to believe that WittyNut turly was a "glitch" when bidder wnnrscrs has been allowed to continue bidding for at least 53 days with outstanding items in his shopping cart, and is still actively bidding on names.

Here are your terms and conditions regarding this:

wnnrscrs is at least 1150+ hours past a the initial 96 hour deadline for the first unpaid domain of his I discovered (there might be unpaid auctions going further back) and continues to bid on, win, and not pay for domains. There seems to be an alternative set of terms and conditions for certain privileged users, like WittyNut and wnnrscrs.

I've never missed a single payment, and I can't bid on any names or even place any new backorders once I have outstanding items in my shopping cart. Why does my account get frozen instantly until I pay, while others are allowed to bid for months without paying?

 

[Jeff Reberry]

main -

wnnrscrs is a long term customer. We have special terms and payment process setup for this user due to a restriction with their bank (along with a few other long time customers), and we have zero reason to believe this user will not pay for a single domain that they have won. This is not in our general terms, as we have an agreement that extends the time this user is able to pay. This user pays for every domain they win, no exceptions, and if they do not, they will be suspended like everyone else. For the record, this user is paying the full amount on domains and does not have any type of “special deal”.

While we have been asked for this dozens, maybe hundreds of times, nobody gets special or preferential discounts on won auctions.

 

[werty]

So dropcatch now offers 0% interest credit lines for customers? If everybody can sign up, then that would be fair.

 

[tonyk2000]

It appears that DropCatch is not going to fix the things in correct way (or at all). Sorry to say this, but facts are facts. Among other facts, constant silence on various "inconvinient" issues speaks for itself.

Yes they may finally be forced to issue some refunds or comps, and even buy "forum/blog silence" by asking to sign something to receive a comp, but they cannot buy loyality this way.

Since they are able to maintain such a big number of registrars only because they are serving both dropcatch and hugedomains, and revenue generated by dropcatch will go down due to lack of appropriate actions and failure to improve the system, it may well be that they will soon follow pheenix way and drop some registrars. Which opens a question - will icann transfer the affected domains to namebright registrar (Icann/IANA id 1441) so the customers will still be able to manage domains @ namebright dot com as they currently do, OR will icann transfer the domains from voluntary dropped registrars to some other registrar entity, that is not connected with namebright in any way?

 

[offthehandle]

Sadly, something tells me no matter what we do, you all will never be satisfied. I hope I am wrong.

The fact that you took the time on a national holiday to address this is self evident that you care. I appreciate seeing that and we all should be acknowleding that. I believe that your personal attention to details and looking closely and continuously communicating with your customers is the key. As the retired owner of a small business I took every complaint and handled it. I called people back to discuss minor problems even during my vacation. If you look at the other small businesses who post here like Namesilo and Dub and others who post here repeatedly, they all maintain great rapport and reviews, and get referrals and grow. Just with listening to their customers and answering the tough questions.

Every customer large or small appreciates communication, whether it’s good or bad news. Please continue to communicate here (as you can) so this thread does not grow with unanswered questions and speculation as that unfortunately fuels negativity.

The bad example are like the Brandable marketplace thread now with 473,323 views and 7991 pages and the “other” auction platform thread now with 96,767 views and 1,512 posts and continuing. Those are imho mismanaged goodwill and PR opportunities. The owner/management silence is the worst decision they could make. The continuing NP member questioning and auditing, the anger of corruption and negativity on those threads is because they have failed to get rid of the corrupted people and communicate. They cannot seem to do the right thing, ignore problems and go silent. Both of those threads should be good examples of how NOT to handle issues.

Keep up the good work, enjoy the Holiday and continued success with catching the most names!

 

[Jeff Reberry]

Quick update – 69 domains will be re-auctioned today, from the non-payment of user WittyNut.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Nothing like some free advertising

Quick update – 69 domains will be re-auctioned today, from the non-payment of user WittyNut.

I see lots google ads around for dropcatch. You using the profits from the shill bidders for that campaign?

Time to change the title of this thread to
“Dropcatch domain reauction advertising thread”

 

[tonyk2000]

This thread was started on Oct. 28th, so it "celebrates" one month anniversary today. Are there any other noticeable changes, except of increased advertising budget @ drop catch, which is natural as nobody wants to lose critical numbers of customers as @DropCatch Support indicated?

 

[tonyk2000]

performancetraining.com and tuncan.com have now been paid for,

Both domains have some unusual whois, as if somebody trying to impersonate tucows/hover - powered privacy service. I'd say that this whois is incorrect for any namebright/dropcatch domain:

Registrant Name: Contact Privacy Customer
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 96 Mowat Ave
Registrant City: Toronto
Registrant State/Province: Ontario
Registrant Postal Code: M6K 3M1
Registrant Country: CA
Registrant Phone: +1.3044056263
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]

So, somebody with incorrect account details can be allowed to participate in dropcatch auctions, have their winnings be extended in non-paid status, and reauctions to be canceled?

 

[wwwulff]

I just saw this:
https://domaininvesting.com/dropcatch-com-giving-auction-refunds/

 

[Arca]

Never paid for.

Looks like this domain has now been paid for.

Keep in mind that these terms and conditions only apply to regular users, and there are a number of buyers who are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Privileged DropCatch buyers can can delay payment for weeks/months and at the same time continue to win more domains and accumulate outstanding payments.

 

[Aliast]

It would be good idea for DropCatch to start asking users to pre-fund accounts and allow bidding with pre-funded funds only.

What if we don't want to use a pre-fund system? Doesn't look like a great idea to me. Better ask for a valid credit card at the registration. Indeed, no one like to leave money on an account, especially for non regular customers.

Regarding the security, how can fake bidder win an auction above 60$ since the verification process require a valid ID/Passport?

 

[DropCatch Support]

DropCatch values the integrity of our auction platform and are doing absolutely everything we can to prevent re-auctions by increasing the security of our site. We hear our user’s concern regarding reauctions on our platform, and fraudulent bidding and we want to ensure you that we are continuously working toward improving our security.

In the month of October only 1.7% of dropping domain auctions on DropCatch resulted in reauction.

DropCatch requires all users submit a valid government issued ID to begin the verification process. Once submitted our customer support team reviews accounts for various factors to determine if the user should be allowed to participate in auctions. The verification standards and processes are always changing and evolving as we identify new behaviors, trends, and attempts at verification of multiple accounts. DropCatch denies verification of all suspect accounts preventing the user’s ability to participate in auctions.

Domains that are left in an unpaid state past the grace period of the cart or auctions that DropCatch identifies as potentially fraudulent are reauctioned to ensure the auction is legitimate, accurate, and fair. To be clear, we don’t like re-auctions any more than our users. We take nonpayment and fraudulent behavior on our site very seriously.

We appreciate customer feedback and always welcome questions or comments through PM or email direct at [email protected]

 

[Arca]

DropCatch values the integrity of our auction platform and are doing absolutely everything we can to prevent re-auctions by increasing the security of our site. We hear our user’s concern regarding reauctions on our platform, and fraudulent bidding and we want to ensure you that we are continuously working toward improving our security.

In the month of October only 1.7% of dropping domain auctions on DropCatch resulted in reauction.

DropCatch requires all users submit a valid government issued ID to begin the verification process. Once submitted our customer support team reviews accounts for various factors to determine if the user should be allowed to participate in auctions. The verification standards and processes are always changing and evolving as we identify new behaviors, trends, and attempts at verification of multiple accounts. DropCatch denies verification of all suspect accounts preventing the user’s ability to participate in auctions.

Domains that are left in an unpaid state past the grace period of the cart or auctions that DropCatch identifies as potentially fraudulent are reauctioned to ensure the auction is legitimate, accurate, and fair. To be clear, we don’t like re-auctions any more than our users. We take nonpayment and fraudulent behavior on our site very seriously.

We appreciate customer feedback and always welcome questions or comments through PM or email direct at [email protected]

Based on the number of restarted auctions in .com I am seeing, this number seems very low for .coms (I assume all the dropcaught .org, .cc, and other less commercially valuable extensions with little incentive for fraudulent bidding bring down this percentage). I have already posted info about 14 (!) restarted .com auctions, and I just started this thread a few days ago. Based on how many .com's you send to auctions, this is already more than 1.7% for october, so your number seems really off for .com alone.

Regardless of the low percentage platform wide, the number of .com auctions with fraudulent activity is certainly above what is tolerable.

Also, this percentage you have provided also only tells half the story, and is misleading in terms of the bigger picture of what is going on here. Because all these would-be fraudulent bidders might bid up a dozen auctions before they actually win one (and don't pay). One bidder can do a lot of damage before they get deemed fraudulent, and this damage is not reflected in giving a percentage of how many auctions were not paid for. The ones paid for by legit winning bidders, with second and third highest bidders that later turned out to be fraudulent bidders that would not have paid had they won, are the ones costing us money, and it is this activity is the biggest issue here.

 

[wwwweb]

Domain investor and cannabis expert at the same time? An interesting combination. Hope DropCatch will be able to take legal action against this person if it is his real identity.

Well CannaMarket was a $4K non payment, which is significant enough, I am not sure what else he would have been able to default on. The more concerning thing was I saw in a few other auctions this person bid up others sometimes upto hundreds of dollars, in the CannaMarket is was thousands.

Dropcatch directly profited from this deadbeat, and his intentions not to pay, their customers are left to pay the price for their lack of internal controls to stop such financial crimes from being committed.

 

[anantj]

This would certainly eliminate non-paying bidders. All these fraudulent $5,000, $10,000, etc. bids would be history if they made this change. Implementing this seems like an easy decision, and considering their terrible track record with fraudulent bidding and non-paying bidders, they should really take this simple step to strengthen the credibility of their platform.

How would bidders pre-fund their accounts to that level post auction start (which lasts for 3 days)? For amounts that large (at least larger than 5K), Wire transfer is the most viable option but that can take up to 5 days itself.

 

[wwwweb]

How would bidders pre-fund their accounts to that level post auction start (which lasts for 3 days)? For amounts that large (at least larger than 5K), Wire transfer is the most viable option but that can take up to 5 days itself.

I agree, I wouldn't want these guys holding large sums of deposits.

I would say maybe you 5X your deposit amount, and failing to fund within 7 days forfeits your deposit.

These are just big IF's, Dropcatch knows what is up, and they are ok with the status quo, as this is the most profitable route for them, you think they are truly concerned about their customers?

The tone of their cookie cutter email said it all.

You just have to be aware on their platform, and if you are getting baited, or you feel a crazy bidder is at bay, dump the domain on them.

 

[Brandstead]

Couldn't they just preauth the credit cards on file to ensure the user has at least some funds available, and include in the terms that non auction payment results in a fine to discourage this? I've been in a few of the auctions mentioned, and seeing the crazy bidding and constant re-auctions makes it hard to trust at all

 

[Arca]

Great info, I have never seen PostPost, I have seen warlord in many high $ auctions, rarely any in the small auctions, he always tends to bid for the 4-5 figure ones, not so in the 3 figures which is weird now that I think of it. Warlord has been around for a while, I am sure someone here can ID him to a caught domain.

I think the $$$'s really went down today, because of the TM discounting, even moreso because it is Novartis, whose lawyer is relentless in UDRP filings. Lumeo.com had some risk, at $2K ok fine roll the dice, at $14K to much risk.

He uses private WHOIS on won domains. Evertrust.com and iceberry.com are names won by w a r l o r d at dropcatch.com.

I would of paid 5-6k for it but that kind of price is crazy unless you are an end user in my opinion. I also noticed some strange usernames like postpost, newnew. I think i've seen warlord before. I should of screencapped it.

NewNew stopped bidding at $2,250.00.