Dynadot

warning I lose $42,000 on an escrow.com transaction as pdd.com, help please.

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American

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Hi,
I bought pdd.com via escrow.com and the seller took the domain back on networksolutions.com after he received the money $42,000 US dollar.

for detailed information, please view http://www.drjw.com/

Any suggestions about what I can do is welcome, thank you!

If you know a lawyer who is an expert in online domain name disputes, please tell me his/her contact information, thank you very much!
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
1. Netsol - their system worked as intended. They received a report from one of their customers about a stolen domain name, and transferred it back. The OP is disappointed not to have been consulted.

i just bumped into this thread and just would like to light some more fire under it.

I don't agree with @jberryhill on this one. Networks Solutions has for long selling itself as a secure registrar but they are one of the most easy Registrars to steal domains from. Things have improved progressively since Web.com took control, like hiding the administrative contact email address, account information and user ID from their "forgot user id/password" recovery system. But they are still very prone to fake ID based hijacks and some social engineering.

I will be shortly posting some findings that I have been collecting over the years regarding stolen domains from Network Solutions that have went under that radar and that are linked to a very well known and respected entity in the domain world.
 
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This is a hell of a story. The intelligence provided here by NP users is outstanding too.
I'm about to save offline this whole thread since it has a number of techniques which one can use if he wants to reverse engineer his domaining related issues.

Respect to @Grilled
 
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Network solutions needs to sound more like Network problems
 
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similar story happened to me with the domain cwr.com. i tell everybody. NEVER BUY A DOMAIN WITH NETWORKSOLUTION REGISTRAR. i have found a lot of awful stories of thousands of accounts hacked and buying hacked accounts and so on. i have transfered all my domains to godaddy now
 
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Its really astonishing to read such story happened long time ago...
Hi 672,

Welcome to NamePros. :)
It is astonishing, isnt it?

Did check out the entire thread?
Its a good one.
Pay special attention to @jberryhill 's posts.
Who do you think was at fault?

Ever hear of something like this before?

Again, Welcome to Np. Hope to see you on the boards.

Peace,
Kenny
 
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Hi 672,

Welcome to NamePros. :)
It is astonishing, isnt it?

Did check out the entire thread?
Its a good one.
Pay special attention to @jberryhill 's posts.
Who do you think was at fault?

Ever hear of something like this before?

Again, Welcome to Np. Hope to see you on the boards.

Peace,
Kenny
Hi Kenny, thanks very much for greetings! especially to someone newbie here like me.

I spent around 2 hours to read every details of this thread from page 1 to page 14, based on my previous impression, both Escrow.com and NS are supposedly quite trustable and safe place to transact. if there is no such major breach or loophole being utilized , the victim 'Americans' would not have been trapped. Really can not figure out who really at fault as I did not see full pictures.
 
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Oh man, that hurts

Not good news for the domaining industry, it just sucks when these type of shenanigans are pulled.
The problem here is they will believe the guy from the US first because of all the domain fraud from China.

Just goes to show there are just as many unscrupulous people from our neck of the woods too.

I sincerely hope you get your money back but better yet if anyone knows this guy we should gang up on him and force him to conclude the transaction. The goods should change hands if the money was paid.

Just not good, totally uncool :xf.frown:
 
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Hey American, here's what I see, you will need to contact Web/Network solution to get the domain back, since you have sales transaction.

Here's the problem, you should never accept a cancel and get your money back. Why? By agreeing to cancel the deal, Web/Networksolution believes that they are off the hook in the first place.

By agreeing to cancel, you and the seller have accepted a mutual agreement that the domain will go back to the owner. However, your money, if the owner decides not to send you back your money, you will have to send a report to Texas or wherever that person lives. Which is another bigger problem.

1)By releasing funds via Escrow you have made an agreement that you got the domain name.
Which is not a problem
2) By agreeing to cancel the deal you have released Network Solution and Web of any liability because you say you and the seller agree. >>>>>>>Email Seller to PUSH back domain. Ask him why is it still in his account.

For WEB They are liable for pushing back a domain name, you can sue them in China. Web/NS is a large company and is liable if they push back the domain unlawfully, and they will have to pay fines too. DO not write email to seller to agree, by agreeing, you lose all rights, WEB/NS will no longer be liable, you can contact NO one.

You will need to ask the domain back. Because the seller will probably send your email of agreement to WEB where they will say if both side agrees they are no longer liable.

Contact web. Get your domain back. Tell the seller to push the domain again.

Wow, what an excellent post, I learned a lot from that.

Thank you so much for posting (y)
 
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The domain name PDD.com must be returned to the new buyer. That is the universal decision.

Well if it was stolen, then it will have to be returned to the entity it was stolen from.
 
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@American
If you need a lawyer in the US you could contact @jberryhill
He is also on this forum. Hope you can sort this out.
 
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@American - Did you do any due diligence to ensure PDD.com was not stolen before purchasing it? If you wouldn't mind posting a screenshot, I am interested to see how the sale of PDD.com was negotiated.

Have you had any contact with the previous owner [Professional Data Dimensions]? To include before the sale, and/or after the sale?

FWIW: RBG.com also had a recent WHOIS with the same email. and WHOIS info as whomever sold @American PDD.com. And similar to PDD.com, the WHOIS info changed back to the previous owner.

upload_2018-1-9_0-55-28.png


#34 rule: dont push .com to netsol

Rule #1. Do your due diligence to insure you are not buying a stolen domain.
 
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American - it's too bad you weren't able to discuss these purchases with an experienced domain investor first. There are some very obvious red flags, that would have indicated that these were stolen domains (seller name not matching to the recent whois record).

I'm very curious to see how this gets resolved. Escrow.com made big news recently with their changes of requiring extensive buyer / seller verification before transacting on their platform:

escrow.com/verify

The scammer who did this would have had to verify their identity as "Patrick Sitrok" I guess.

Also - it's too bad that you got a run around from Network Solutions. If they had been more clear to you about what happened (receiving stolen domains into your account), maybe you could have alerted Escrow.com sooner. It's already been over a month since the scammer was paid out...
 
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Although not a domain, I have been through a similar situation.

1) File a police report in the state/town the crime occurred. You will have to consider Escrow.com's state, and the sellers state. Use the persons name from Escrow transaction in the police report as seller of stolen goods. Even if that is not a real name, it doesn't matter for the police report.

2) Provide Escrow with the police report & they should release what data they have regarding the seller to you.

3) Email one of the domain lawyers mentioned above and forward them the Escrow info.

The lawyer can do all of this for you, which may be more convenient because you are not in the USA. But if you can file the police report and work with escrow first, you will save some money.

GL
 
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OP I am sorry that some scum has done this to you.

This is an important lesson though for all. When buying a domain name make sure you do your due diligence. Especially if something seems too good to be true.

@jberryhill You're an absolute star for helping out on this forum with your expertise. If I ever get a chance to meet you I will for sure be buying you a drink.
 
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Melissa Kittrel hasn't worked for PDD in 7 years. It's very likely that her old business email got hacked

Have you taken a look at her religious blog? Looks like her old email isn't the only thing that got hacked.

Add that to the endless vista of red flags that looks like the Beijing Olympic opening ceremony.
 
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in this case would we be talking about say an Afternic agent for instance?

In no instance should you rely on someone who is going to get paid if the deal goes through.
 
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I had actually reached out about this domain a few years ago since it looked like PDD was basically just abandoned and the owner, Wayne Patrick (just look up his name + PDD to find him on twitter, linkedin etc), had moved onto other nifty big projects. Never heard back from him or any other previous colleagues so assumed it was being held onto for 1+ of many understandable reasons despite no longer being an active biz as far as I could tell, and a "offer they couldn't refuse" would be out of my budget anyways. Sorry to hear you got scammed, and apparently the scammer used the name "Patrick" and location info to make look more legit, really hope it works out for you somehow but thanks for letting us all know and hopefully it will save some others from getting burnt by the same scammer on other domains he might have stolen.
 
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...as a seller overseas or domestically, you have US Gov liability as well as selling your domain and receiving those “illicit” funds, and you have no way to prove they are legitimate prior to the sale and banking privacy. Escrow companies are as stated above perhaps not checking, not a bank registered to comply with anti-money laundering laws and verification of funds origin nor any guarantees. Is that correct?

Hi @offthehandle
Part of a licensed escrow company's job is establishing the source of funds and making sure they are not coming from a sanctioned individual or institution. Checks against the source of funds are mandatory and absolutely included procedures performed by any licensed escrow company.

Jackson
 
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On the other side of the coin
https://www.namepros.com/threads/pa...me-escrow-business.971364/page-6#post-6516117
I just had a Payoneer escrow that closed before the domain was transferred due to this issue
https://www.namepros.com/threads/co...aimed-was-icann-had-suspended-domain.1059240/
where stupid Network Solutions (NSOL) thought that my domain was ICANN suspended when there was no such issue at all going on, so I am not a big fan of NSOL in the first place - they seem to often hold up transfers out of domains and apparently even (in my case noted here) transfers in of domains, for phantom issues, or simply because they want to retain a domain and not let it go.

In my case I pushed the domain Dynadot to Dynadot after the escrow closed (there was nothing wrong with the domain, it was NOT ICANN suspended) because I am an honest seller. If I had not been honest, and not transferred the domain, would Payoneer have been responsible? Buyer paid with a credit card, could he not have disputed the payment to Payoneer?

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In this situation here, I assume buyer wired the money to escrow. He has no recourse other than somehow finding and suing the seller, which would be, as already pointed out, expensive and perhaps not even productive, perhaps resulting in a worthless judgment (including a judgment worthless because the seller is in some foreign country that will not recognize the judgment) or turning the matter over to the authorities for criminal prosecution, which let's face it, although this sum of money sounds like a lot, when it comes to a possible multinational criminal investigation perhaps ending in some country which has no diplomatic ties to the U.S. and given that buyer himself is apparently China and would not exactly be right next door to testify in a U.S. court, doubtful that much would happen.

In the U.S. a victim of say, identity or credit card fraud, is supposed to file the complaint with his hometown police and then it is up to his hometown police to coordinate with the authorities in the jurisdiction(s) where the actual crime(s) occurred.

But with this buyer we're talking about a guy in China, and China is not going to coordinate with U.S. authorities, so if anything is going to be done, only the FBI will do anything about it as it is probably an across state lines to a foreign country type crime, I imagine. I don't see any local police having jurisdiction here unless this guy is stupid enough to be right in the U.S. and pull this scam.

I once had a client who was defrauded on the internet for low five figures and we never could get the FBI, IC3 or local cops to do anything about it, and it was only after I investigated the culprit myself with the help of a private investigator friend, that we were able to put enough pressure on him, because he was worried that he might go down criminally, that he refunded every bit of my client's money. Later though, after he was finally arrested for doing the same thing to others that he did to my client, we found out that he had "robbed Peter to pay Paul" - that is, bilked others to get the money to pay back my client. The culprit had paid back only my client only because we scared him - all the other victims were left out to dry.
It was only after this scammer ripped off enough people that finally the authorities stepped in to do something - they would not do anything for my client when he seemed to be the only victim.
 
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escrow.com already contact me,they will provide all information to police,I'm thanks for that.
 
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yes,i used my friend id.
1.So you used someone else's escrow accout to complete a $42,000 transaction.

2. The domain gets transfered to an account that doesn't match the escrow account.

3. You try and contact escrow and netsol for help.

4. Do you see how this looks on your end?
 
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@American

Did you use someone elses escrow account to complete the transaction?

Or did you use your own escrow account?

yes,i used my friend id.

Has your friend been contacting escrow then because I don’t see how escrow would discuss this matter with an outside party. Or have you been logging into your friend’s escrow and sending messages as if you were the account holder?

This wrinkle makes the criminal investigation and potential lawsuit a bit muddier.

Consider a bank account belonging to A. B wires money to A’s bank account but then C scams the money out of the bank account. The victim is B for legal purposes.

Your case isn’t as clear because it would add the wrinkle of that scammer C promised to provide something to A and did not, but still the less straight forward the matter the harder to prosecute or litigate successfully.

But now we have two parties who must present themselves for testimony - you (“American”) and the escrow account holder. Two parties who may be overseas or not even in the same country, with a scammer who may be in a third country.

You might want to contact the current domain holder and see if he’d be willing to file a criminal complaint regarding theft of the domain. Of course for that, law enforcement might not bother because there is no loss - domain was returned - but perhaps worth a try.

I’m not sure how the original owner got the domain back so quickly. Remember this?
https://www.domainsherpa.com/calvins-domain-theft/
Short of a udrp action which is applicable only where a TM is involved, a lawsuit is generally needed to recover a domain. Or a criminal action, which might take just as long as a civil lawsuit.
 
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this is why domain names suck; good lord what a crappy business.

I disagree, just make your homework before you spend $42k.
 
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