status-review Suggestions, Observations June Edition

[JB Lions]

From the other thread.

First, forums are about community and discussion should be here.

Something was posted about every move we make is supposed to be for the betterment of NP. An old example. Obvious TM's for sale/auction weren't allowed here. Then you started to allow it again. How is that a betterment for this forum or this industry. It's not. There was a long discussion on that, and I think you're not allowing that anymore. Should have never been allowed here. So I think that one got handled. But to this day, not once have you explained how that would be better for anything, just that others were doing it. I can't think of one reason, except for those engaged in that kind of thing, people you shouldn't want here in the first place

Affiliate links and other promotion. First, I have no idea why a forum has a blog. But you do and you might have reasons for it, SEO or this or that. Then, what should that section be for. It started off right, good stuff there. That good stuff could also be a forum post, I see both when I hit New Posts. You already have a section for free promotion, lists etc. I believe. I never venture that way. So why would you have it in the blog section? You've had to adjust the rules for it, since it was violating the rules.

I mention (and others) it feels like it's becoming more like DP or WF and I really have no idea if that's the goal. People do go to those places, I don't because they're junky to me, full of more experienced people taking advantage of newbies. With affiliate links, you're not keeping it steady or taking it down, you're opening it up. So if you take steps in the direction of DP, you shouldn't be offended if it starts to feel that way. There are plenty of people out there that started their own blogs, and they can post affiliate links to their heart's content.

Again, already have sections for free promotions, lists. Already allow affiliate links in sig. Now you're allowing in blog posts. When you open it up to that, then you'll get more people coming here to do that, purely to promote. What if somebody wants to do that, make a blog post with affiliate links and gets rejected. Then you'll have the so and so is allowed to do that, hierarchy, separation type stuff. Will touch on that below.

There was something in the Domain Name Discussion where many people commented, I think the post was removed. Where somebody starts a thread for the sole purpose of driving traffic to their blog. Again, this is a forum, discussion should be here. That section should be free of any type of promotion. There should be at least one place on this forum for genuine discussion.

Pro badges, not a big deal to me. I've seen people mention it, I know sometimes it's not good for forums. Back in the day I was put in some Private Affiliate Forum, where just those people had discussion. I was actually against it, I can use PMs for that. Other members found out and didn't like it, were offended, felt they were missing out on conversation, etc. It comes across as a Look At Me, I'm Special (more than you) type of thing. Not good for community.

So I don't know the idea behind that is. Is it a self pat on the back. Will you have private discussion forums. I think people who spend any time on the forum, after awhile they can figure out who knows what they're talking about, who's making money etc. And that will be different for everybody.

So what is the purpose of that exactly?

The action here is Buying and Selling domains. The discussion should be genuine with no motive of affiliate links or driving traffic off the forum, keep the discussion here. You're plenty open with affiliate links in the sig, that should be good for most people. Many forums don't even allow that. And again, a whole section where people can freely advertise. That's more than enough so it doesn't have to creep to other sections. If it does, then the DP observations are legit.

 

[JB Lions]

Also wanted to add something I touched on last time, still a mess:

https://www.namepros.com/forums/faq-rules-and-help-guides.232/

Last time I posted specific stuff, new stuff I noticed:

GUIDES Official User Guide - this one added Tuesday, 3 days ago, you still have:
User Guide - this should be deleted

Some stuff posted twice like:
FAQ Marketplace FAQ
FAQ Marketing FAQ

I mean, scroll down that page. You can't tell me that looks organized.

Figure out the rules. Organize, simplify. Rules, FAQ's, Guides, some of them Guides to the FAQ's and Rules. It's headache inducing.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Several years ago we became a bit more lenient on the TM situation due to the complicated nature of catering to a global community where a TM in one country may not be a TM in another. In recent years, we tightened back up again to police blatant TM names of large corporations that have a global reach and known internationally. Other than those types of TM names, we are really unable to act in any capacity as a legal authority in the matter of international intellectual property or TM law. That’s not our area of expertise.

Regarding rule changes, Edward covered it below:

Everyone is welcome to submit ideas to us and if we believe they will help the community, then we will support them and their ideas without prejudice. Rules that were put in place 10 years ago will be evaluated the same way as rules instated yesterday. If something can be changed for the better, we're eager to discuss it in a professional and respectful manner with any and all members.

The rules will continue to be updated as we work to improve them.

I can certainly understand the frustration when it comes to affiliate related advertising and that is the reason we started a blanket rule against it many years ago. However, it’s that same frustration that launched such a blanket rule without considering all the angles first. It’s important for us to digest this topic a bit more and find a level/fair playing field that works for everyone. The affiliate links have been allowed only in a way that will not hinder the readability or usability of content, in specific areas where they make sense: where domain lists appear and signatures.

We are still analysing feedback and industry data when it comes to affiliate related content/advertising and are confident that we can find some common ground where everyone can co-exist in business. We are in no way looking to saturate the community and alienate any of our members. Please keep in mind that we will never be able to please everyone, however we would like to be able to please the majority using statistically proven and tested methods that allow multiple types of business models to work together on the same business platform.

As of right now, affiliate links are only allowed in 4 areas (this may or may not change). If we find them in any unauthorized areas they will be dealt with promptly. The Domain Name Discussion forum you referenced does not allow affiliate links in threads. However there is one exception to that rule: The thread MUST be a paid advertisement (Normally in the form of a sticky thread that has [Sponsor] or [Ad] in the title or denoted in the first post). This has been an advertising option for as long as I’ve been around.

The PRO Forum is a Group (other groups includes Young Domainers, Large Portfolio Holders, Domain Buyer Group, etc.). There have been many groups over the years. When there is an audience that wants a group and they’re ready to manage it (not NamePros), we are happy to create the group. This has been the case since NamePros began creating groups many years ago.

Just to address the question as to what the purpose of the PRO group forum and VIP/Business forum is since everyone can get an idea of experience through participation in the general open forums. It allows individuals of those groups (E.g. PRO = time in industry, vested portfolio, quality contributions to the industry, etc. and VIP/Business = Time as member, contribution, reputation, or paid upgrade status which tends to indicate they’re serious about doing business) to have a private and more confidential place where they can bounce ideas off members with the same level of experience and without as much noise (some members prefer slower-paced discussions). Don’t get me wrong, we value all the members of NamePros equally and have no favoritism; we simply listen to the demand. When members express that they want an area that doesn’t currently exist, such as a place to relax among each other with less clutter, then we have no problem filling that void.

The rules are still a work in progress. The rules project has been underway for a while, and it's been a significant undertaking because rules were scattered all over the forums with a lot of duplicated content, formatting differences, structure inconsistencies, hidden rules in obscure forums, etc. Once it’s all finished, we will announce it.

 

[JB Lions]

"It’s important for us to digest this topic a bit more and find a level/fair playing field that works for everyone."

As far as that. It was already level. Once you allow affiliate promotion, say in the Blog section, it can only become unlevel. There is no way you're going to allow any/every member here to start a post in that section and put affiliate links in there. It would be drowning in it. So you're going to have to reject a lot of it and then allow some in. Now, you're unlevel. Now, the people that get rejected might get mad, might leave, might think you're showing favoritism to those allowed to do it etc. You just opened the door to problems when there weren't any. Who knows, time will tell.

 

[Eric Lyon]

We can try to speculate on things that haven't happened yet all day long, however if high-quality blog posts that meet our rules are submitted with affiliate links, we will accept them all the same.

It's generally best to play it out to find out the accurate statistics needed to make an educated decision in such matters. Every community is slightly different, so what works for one may not work for another. We must conduct our own research to find the best solution for us.

 

[NameOmnia]

high-quality blog posts

Personally I think that one of the main issues is actually this one.

When there is an audience that wants a group and they’re ready to manage it (not NamePros)

The way it's been put sounds very much like a lobby to me and it's proven in the rules

"This is a confidential group by invitation only.
Membership is not guaranteed if eligibility and requirements are met."

that it's a bit like saying " it doesn't really matter if actually meet all the criteria, what matters is if we like you or not ".

Just my 2 cents

 

[Paul]

You love to talk about what we're doing wrong, but lately it seems like you don't have much to say. I see a lot of text, but rather shallow criticism. And, what's this, we're down to only one critical thread per month now? :P

Maybe you should try telling us what you like instead of what you dislike. There are a significant number of people who spend countless hours pondering the smallest details to ensure that everything is as fair as possible. While you might see some problems in the resulting implementation, they see a lot more problems in the alternatives that could have been, partly because they have powerful analytical tools to help them, and partly because that's their job--and they're good at it.

Even more people spend countless hours programming, designing, testing, deploying, optimizing, and securing all of these updates. Remember, we're constantly getting attacked from every angle; on a good day, without any attacks, our backend servers generally handle over 2,000 uncached HTTP requests per minute. We're targeted by all sorts of spammers, most of whom you never see, because we stop them before they manage to post. Seemingly simple features that might work on other websites end up being too inefficient to implement here. Everything has to be perfectly optimized, or we'll end up offline. If we were using typical web servers running Apache, we'd already be down.

All of this takes a lot of time and money. Simple changes can cost thousands of dollars to implement properly. And, of course, we value your opinion: so when everything you say is negative, month after month, people start to get frustrated.

I'm going to forego the typical diplomacy and get straight to the point:

• The blog is here to stay. We're not going to allow blatant advertising. Yes, there's been discussion about whether content that has already been posted crosses the line. For now, we're just observing; we'll see where it goes. It's still in its infancy, and we open it up to everyone to post; naturally, not everything is going to be of the highest quality. It contains plenty of great content nonetheless.
• There's really no need for me to justify the Pro group. It's a group. If you don't like it, don't join. Nobody's stopping you from starting your own. Yes, they get pretty badges. I doubt that's going to cause any issues, because similar badges never have in the past; if it does, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
• We're reworking the rules, FAQ, etc. We're doing it quite carefully this time, so it's taking a while. Patience.
• Most of our development team knows very little about DP and WF, including myself. Affiliate links are disallowed in most of the sections here. We can't change that because we'd be overrun by spambots in a matter of minutes.

 

[NameOmnia]

The blog is here to stay. We're not going to allow blatant advertising. Yes, there's been discussion about whether content that has already been posted crosses the line

I think that no one has ever wished for the blog to go anywhere but where it is already! I am glad to see that you are discussing whether some content already posted crosses the line or, more simply, violates your own rules.

Maybe, as many people are not quite getting it yet, you could explain why lists of available domains filled with affiliate links are considered blog posts instead of being assigned to the available domains section where they seem to naturally belong.

I think that the same people would really appreciate if you could also explain why posts that are way under 300 words ( one of the set rules ) are still visible in the blog section and I am also quite confident that those same individuals would be delighted to understand why a quite personal and offensive bolded red add-on is considered so much of a high quality content that hasn't been yet removed.

Probably, and I say probably, if the above points were clarified, people would stop wondering and speculating, don't you think?

As a personal opinion, considered this is the feedback and suggestion area, I would like to see what admin or mod deals with my own reports. I think that if the mods and admins can see who reports what it would be fair for the members to see who dealt with their reports; it's either none of the parties see anything or both do.

 

[JB Lions]

You love to talk about what we're doing wrong, but lately it seems like you don't have much to say. I see a lot of text, but rather shallow criticism. And, what's this, we're down to only one critical thread per month now? :P

Paul, most forums appreciate feedback from members, it shows they care. They don't get hurt feelings over it. Most of the rest of your post is dealing with tech stuff. That's working fine, it's supposed to, that's what you're getting paid for. So good job.

Now for any suggestion I've ever made.

Ones, if any?, you've implemented are probably working.
Ones you haven't, would work. That's based on experience.

Can you show me even 1 that I've made that would hurt this forum in any way? I'll repeat one below.

"Most of our development team knows very little about DP and WF, including myself"

Exactly, that's why you're not qualified on the subject. If we were talking about tech stuff, I wouldn't be qualified on that. But, go sign up for that forum, hang out, ask questions and then you'll start to get it and understand the comparisons between that forum and your blog section. It's usually more experienced people making money off of newbies. So when you have someone, with a Pro badge (that helps the selling), using the Blog section for personal promotion, to put money in their pocket, it's where it's going to end up. Newbies are going to eat up whatever they're dishing out. Again, you already have sections for lists and such here. There is no need to put in a section that was working already.

A suggestion a made before, that is fun, would help this forum.

Namepros Best Of, you do it once a year.

2 weeks or so of nominations
2 weeks or so of voting

Best Registrar
Best Parking Company
Best Hosting
Best/Favorite Domain Tool
Best Domain Blog
etc.

Put in simple measures like minimum post count so companies don't have their employees bum rushing the forum, spiking the vote.

Participation, traffic etc. You know what usually happens with those that win? Makes them feel good, they use it as marketing. They'll put a NP banner on their site saying how they won, which drives traffic back to this site, good branding etc for both parties. I would bet most people on this forum would like that idea, just takes a little effort on NP's part.

 

[Paul]

Feedback is nice. A repetitive barrage of nit-picky complaints from the same individual gets old after a year or two. We're at the point where we're no longer interested in listening to your incessant stream of "I could do it better," "This is going in the wrong direction," and "You're not listening to me." We spend tens of thousands of dollars listening to you, and it's become quite apparent that you'll only ever see the glass as half empty. Judging by your ratio of criticism to complements, you very much dislike being here. The more we improve, the more questionable your feedback becomes: it's increasingly predictive in nature and relies heavily on assumptions, fallacies, and subjective interpretations.

You're welcome to provide balanced, constructive feedback. You're welcome to point out legitimate problems. However, in turn, we expect you to listen to our responses--which you have not done. Often your criticism is outdated, bringing up problems that were fixed months ago. Repeatedly throwing the same feedback at us isn't going to change our responses, either. If we tell you we're working on something, that doesn't mean it's on our to-do list: it means we're actively working on it. Bringing it up again isn't going to speed things up.

We have more than enough community management experience on our team to go around. If we decide your idea isn't going to work, we expect you to respect that. We aren't obligated to present strong counter-arguments to each of your propositions, which would necessarily contain confidential information. Propose an idea once, please. Don't make a list of ideas that we haven't implemented and reiterate the entire list each time you file a complaint. We internally track and prioritize anything that we deem relevant or noteworthy, so there's no reason for you to bring it up again.

You've already received responses to the issues you raised about the blog, affiliate links, and Pro members. If you're at all interested in reading them, they're a few posts up.

 

[JB Lions]

"We spend tens of thousands of dollars listening to you"

What nonsense. It really is a waste of my time, which is worth more than the time you spend listening.

"you very much dislike being here."
Based on participation, it's obvious I like it here. I wouldn't be giving suggestions if I didn't. Of course, you've only been here 2 years, so you might not know that. You're also more of a tech guy, not a marketing guy, so you probably don't recognize some of the stuff I'm talking about.

You obviously have some reading to catch up on. If you do, you would realize I'm not the only one bringing this stuff up. The Blog stuff, a few others pointed it out first, I wasn't even paying attention to that thread until I read about it elsewhere. People were pointing out rule violations. If you want to pretend those other members don't exist, that's up to you. Maybe you don't appreciate their feedback either. All the stuff that was brought up was legit btw, that's why the rules had to be changed.

After Eric's reply, I accepted the Blog section will used by some to make money, self promotion etc. Fine, I accepted that, it's not my decision to make. Do you see me posting after that? The answer would be no. You came to this thread late in the game to start it up again.

This thread is in the - NamePros Comments and Feedback' forum. That's what this section is for. If you don't like Suggestions, don't read this section. If you don't like my posts, utilize the block feature of this forum. Or just don't read them or don't reply.

Are you aware Eric suggested this thread? If you want links to that, or other members pointing out some of the same stuff, let me know.

While you're here, you completely skipped over photonmymind's post above.

 

[Paul]

These other people you speak of don't have the same commitment to sending us an endless stream of negative feedback that you have, which is why I'm not including them in my response to you. I am telling you that your attitude is objectionable--not anyone else's. Perhaps you ought to observe how other people are leaving feedback and decide how you can alter your approach to be less condescending. Nobody else sends us endless, repetitive lists of problems we've already fixed or otherwise addressed. If you want to start a thread for the community to discuss a single, specific issue, I have no objection to you doing so. This, on the other hand, is just a disorganized list of vague grievances, which you have a habit of sending us regularly--as you've acknowledged in the title.

 

[JB Lions]

These other people you speak of don't have the same commitment to sending us an endless stream of negative feedback that you have, which is why I'm not including them in my response to you. I am telling you that your attitude is objectionable--not anyone else's. Perhaps you ought to observe how other people are leaving feedback and decide how you can alter your approach to be less condescending. Nobody else sends us endless, repetitive lists of problems we've already fixed or otherwise addressed. If you want to start a thread for the community to discuss a single, specific issue, I have no objection to you doing so. This, on the other hand, is just a disorganized list of vague grievances, which you have a habit of sending us regularly--as you've acknowledged in the title.

I don't send you endless stuff. I haven't talked about anything in months. I don't even flag spam anymore. The obvious stuff that usually gets handled or the forum marketing that's being done. My last post in this section was August 2014, about not being able to edit posts. That's 10 months. Again, Eric suggested this thread.

My threads in the section are usually fine -

https://www.namepros.com/threads/edit-time-changed.831505/

https://www.namepros.com/threads/forum-layout-categories-bit-of-a-wreck.828968/

Most of them are just like that.

I do remember our last interaction and it kind of turns into something like this, where you come and heat the thread up. The last time was when you brought up some spam incident, which you were wrong on. Take the word suggestion and turn it into criticism. It's just suggestions, nothing more.

Like I said, nevermind, it's just a waste of time.

 

[DU]

I think @JB Lions has one a very good job of outlining points in a fair and balanced manner and I appreciate the time taken by all to respond.

Several years ago we became a bit more lenient on the TM situation due to the complicated nature of catering to a global community where a TM in one country may not be a TM in another. In recent years, we tightened back up again to police blatant TM names of large corporations that have a global reach and known internationally. Other than those types of TM names, we are really unable to act in any capacity as a legal authority in the matter of international intellectual property or TM law. That’s not our area of expertise.

I actually remember heated discussion on this where I was in favor of more lenient position from NP because it's the only one that makes sense to me. NP doesn't want to open itself up to issues by declaring itself in any way in the role of TM police (other than if contacted by a TM holder for a take-down request for which there is a specific contact id ). Trade and Service mark law is complicated and difficult and only grows in complexity when you factor global jurisdictions. The governance of TLDS and the various rules on marks as they apply to domains adds even more challenges. It's too hard to generally police and really only worth considering once it starts to grow as a problem.

There are probably improvements that can be made but it's tough to put the onus on the forum staff and it's mostly dependent on community involvement. I get just as irritated by responses that are "That's a TM issue" just because it contains a word as I do people with obvious posting names with obvious TM issues.

I'm not going to get into here again the details. I think that I just wanted to present conflicting view to prove some of the points. That said, obvious rampant TM issue should be stamped out... and I don't think there is a problem currently.

Grey area example I read about recently:

GoofOff.com TM, yes or no?

Interesting site too.

I can certainly understand the frustration when it comes to affiliate related advertising and that is the reason we started a blanket rule against it many years ago. However, it’s that same frustration that launched such a blanket rule without considering all the angles first. It’s important for us to digest this topic a bit more and find a level/fair playing field that works for everyone. The affiliate links have been allowed only in a way that will not hinder the readability or usability of content, in specific areas where they make sense: where domain lists appear and signatures.

If it doesn't affect readability or usability then there is no way for someone who clicks on that link to know about the material connection between the poster and the affiliate/product. I also don't think you can police that the affiliate links are not violating the terms of the affiliate program.

Are you therefore absolving yourself of responsibility for disclosure or policing? If I see an affiliate link hidden I will often report it. That's not a "this site" statement. That's "all site" statement. My desire it to be easily be able to avoid affiliate links without tools etc. I will happily report NP as a side-effect of your policy.

Final thought: in the court of public opinion it is generally conceded that quality forums don't like affiliate links.
You don't receive revenue, you do receive (imho) a credibility hit, and most people using this forum will avoid the use of the affiliate links anyway. I don't see the point at all... I don't even know why you'd fight to defend them but you're evaluating and it's just my opinion.

Can you give me one positive benefit of allowing them in blogs, signatures, etc. {knowing that you could simply link to a redirect and get around the rule anyway}

Just to address the question as to what the purpose of the PRO group forum and VIP/Business forum is since everyone can get an idea of experience through participation in the general open forums. It allows individuals of those groups (E.g. PRO = time in industry, vested portfolio, quality contributions to the industry, etc. and VIP/Business = Time as member, contribution, reputation, or paid upgrade status which tends to indicate they’re serious about doing business) to have a private and more confidential place where they can bounce ideas off members with the same level of experience and without as much noise (some members prefer slower-paced discussions). Don’t get me wrong, we value all the members of NamePros equally and have no favoritism; we simply listen to the demand. When members express that they want an area that doesn’t currently exist, such as a place to relax among each other with less clutter, then we have no problem filling that void.

The rules are still a work in progress. The rules project has been underway for a while, and it's been a significant undertaking because rules were scattered all over the forums with a lot of duplicated content, formatting differences, structure inconsistencies, hidden rules in obscure forums, etc. Once it’s all finished, we will announce it.

I don't care one way about groups but they do change impact what users think just as JBL points out. There is a huge difference between "Young Domainers", "Atlanta Domainers", "Women Domainers", "Bloggers" and a group that sets itself out to be called "PRO" . The difference is between what is an inclusive and an exclusive group.

If the goal is to have a confidential place to bounce ideas of members with the same level of experience without noise why would you advertise it with a badge? The badge seems to provide official NP endorsement of a club that we can't all be in. I'm not going to suggest what impact that may have on the forum dynamics - you can do the studies and figure that out I'm sure. Don't underestimate how much feeling excluded impacts people and their desire to contribute.

My opinion is that I don't care about anyone that wants to hang out in their own part of the forum and compare beard sizes; however, I would think NP would like to make it clearer to the community at large that this group is (a) endorsed (b) not endorsed and for what purpose. I do recall at some point some users were upset that their appraisals were correct and everyone else was wrong so how could they prove their credentials to make sure people knew they were right - maybe this is why it was wanted.

My Feedback: Not everyone shares my opinion

We can try to speculate on things that haven't happened yet all day long, however if high-quality blog posts that meet our rules are submitted with affiliate links, we will accept them all the same.

It's generally best to play it out to find out the accurate statistics needed to make an educated decision in such matters. Every community is slightly different, so what works for one may not work for another. We must conduct our own research to find the best solution for us.

Your main barometer you mention here is quality. Good luck measuring that I think it's unfortunate when a decent blog post gets knocked down the list. Just looking at view counts you can see which ones people appreciate - they're more than 100 words and have personal insight.

Honestly, do you really believe that recent posts have been high quality?

You love to talk about what we're doing wrong, but lately it seems like you don't have much to say. I see a lot of text, but rather shallow criticism. And, what's this, we're down to only one critical thread per month now? :P

Maybe you should try telling us what you like instead of what you dislike.

People don't leave a forum because of what they like and the people that leave a forum don't tell you anything after they've left so getting people to tell you what they dislike before they leave is valuable information, imho. To get them to tell you what they like is also important but it's not something most people give for free without prompt.

My opinion:

• New forum software is better, more responsive, more stable, looks nicer, is more consistent.
• Response to issues is quick, efficient and well done. I've only mentioned a few problems and each time they've been responded to quickly. Each time I've tried to be thankful
• Issue tracking is pro-active to the point where I mention a double post due to a DB issue and I get a PM asking what it was (that's impressive)
• There are things you've fixed that I know about that others wouldn't because of my quirky use of certain features
• Reports get answered.
• Spamming is pretty limited
• You're very lenient with certain things and certain criteria and it's appreciated that it's not a totally professional forum (i.e. fun is allowed)

Overall, the team is doing pretty well. One criticism is that you don't seem to be interested in supporting @Cyberian well in his quest to be the last human trying to use a modern site on IE v 8 or 7 or whatever.

If you want a hug and a pat on the back here you go (the one on the left is usually a really pissed off penguin):

Even more people spend countless hours programming, designing, testing, deploying, optimizing, and securing all of these updates. Remember, we're constantly getting attacked from every angle; on a good day, without any attacks, our backend servers generally handle over 2,000 uncached HTTP requests per minute. We're targeted by all sorts of spammers, most of whom you never see, because we stop them before they manage to post. Seemingly simple features that might work on other websites end up being too inefficient to implement here. Everything has to be perfectly optimized, or we'll end up offline. If we were using typical web servers running Apache, we'd already be down.

All of this takes a lot of time and money. Simple changes can cost thousands of dollars to implement properly. And, of course, we value your opinion: so when everything you say is negative, month after month, people start to get frustrated.
I'm going to forego the typical diplomacy and get straight to the point:

• The blog is here to stay. We're not going to allow blatant advertising. Yes, there's been discussion about whether content that has already been posted crosses the line. For now, we're just observing; we'll see where it goes. It's still in its infancy, and we open it up to everyone to post; naturally, not everything is going to be of the highest quality. It contains plenty of great content nonetheless.
• There's really no need for me to justify the Pro group. It's a group. If you don't like it, don't join. Nobody's stopping you from starting your own. Yes, they get pretty badges. I doubt that's going to cause any issues, because similar badges never have in the past; if it does, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
• We're reworking the rules, FAQ, etc. We're doing it quite carefully this time, so it's taking a while. Patience.
• Most of our development team knows very little about DP and WF, including myself. Affiliate links are disallowed in most of the sections here. We can't change that because we'd be overrun by spambots in a matter of minutes.

I'll forge the typical diplomacy and get straight to the point.
You've just described most jobs in the world - they're hard and people notice stuff that's broken. If you're looking for unconditional love. Buy a dog.
If you're frustrated by negativity you should consider whether it's worth adding to it.

If you want real feedback have you considered simply asking for it? Or soliciting it in different ways?
When was the last time you just asked what people think?

People do appreciate what you do and are thankful there is a place here that it generally working very well. Saying you hear our opinion but in a nutshell, "don't give a shit" doesn't help, it's divisive when @JB Lions has actually done what was asked in another location. There are issues, they've been pointed out nicely in this thread and can be answered in kind.

No one wants the blog removed - they want the quality to be there. You have a post that took quite a lot of time. it's relegated to about 10th on the list behind about 8 posts of significantly lower quality. That doesn't bother you? It doesn't inspire me to write a blog when I know tomorrow there will be a Daily Dose of *Magazine.com names, or, did you see what's on Munich.com posts out there. A blog with 1-2 HIGH quality posts a day (or 0 if there are none) makes way more sense than what it currently being dumped on that section. Of course, I don't have any analytic tools to tell me what's providing value to the forum.

Maybe it's not the concept of groups but how it is perceived those groups are treated? A simple badge means nothing. A simple badge that gives a sense of privilege that is then paired with what some perceive as actual real privilege causes friction. It might fade away, it might all be wasted speculation. But it's naive to think that groups won't have an impact when, as I said, they're exclusive. If people want to be in a secret society they should create a secret society... or go join Domain Bored Room and hang out with their Pro friends.

We have more than enough community management experience on our team to go around. .

Based on your last two responses I do have to wonder if that's as true as you want to believe it is (or if perhaps the wrong person is responding to the feedback). I like what you do and I respect your contribution etc. etc. but unfortunately, resource employees/owners have the unfortunate privilege of having to work harder to bite their tongue.

From another thread I've pulled a comment that you may want to read:

If your true intentions are to help NamePros, then please present yourself and your opinions in a constructive manner and in the designated area: Contact Namepros Support. We are more than happy to discuss every change to NamePros with an open mind and respect. We look forward to speaking with those of you who are interested in having a thoughtful and productive discussion.

 

[Paul]

I know we've heard from you much more recently than that. We take feedback very seriously. When we spend hours fixing a problem that you report (which we appreciate), and then you report it again a month later, and yet again two months later, it starts to frustrate some people. When I first started here, your feedback was quite helpful; however, as time has gone on, it's gotten less objective.

 

[JB Lions]

When we spend hours fixing a problem that you report (which we appreciate), and then you report it again a month later, and yet again two months later, it starts to frustrate some people.

I honestly have no idea what you're even talking about. If you fixed some problem I reported, then why would I report it again? That doesn't make sense. Specifically, what are you referring too?

And stuff like the poll suggestion, yes I suggested it before (I won't anymore), but I didn't post that again to upset people. There is nothing negative to it. It's a fun and positive thing for forums.

 

[Paul]

I honestly have no idea what you're even talking about. If you fixed some problem I reported, then why would I report it again? That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I figured. But, according to our issue tracker, you do it a lot.

---

I am a bit torn on this thread. On one hand, I have a team to protect; on the other, I don't personally have any objections to your feedback, JB. I went against my better judgment when I got involved; perhaps I should've listened to my gut.

Thanks, @defaultuser; there's a lot of wisdom in your post.

 

[NameOmnia]

As a conclusion, hoping it won't be ignored again, it is probably the attitude of skipping over someone's questions/feedback/suggestions like they didn't exist that leave people flabbergasted and more upset than before.

The PRO group, as DefaultUser and JB pointed out makes people feel they are left out. If it is a secret group leave it secret and if you want to make it public and wave badges here and there it's fine, but the fact that this forum is called NamePROs ( not namewhatevers ) and the group is called PRO suggests a dangerous connection. Furthermore it makes feel those who are not part of it as amateurs because if you are not a PRO what are you?

Now, I don't know if I am on Paul's ignore list or if this is a personal conversation between JB and Paul as the latter seems to only want to address JB's issues...Actually I don't know what to think. All the admins and mods can see this section but NO ONE thought that my questions ( that are not only mine ) deserved to be addressed.
Not even when JB pointed that out. I can say I am disappointed but it won't probably make any difference considered the attention my legitimate requests received. I am talking to all of you @Eric Lyon @David Walker @Michelle @enlytend, all the mods I forgot to mention and obviously Namepros senior director @Edward Zeiden . If our questions/feedback/suggestions are not answered and taken into consideration here where else are we supposed to post them?

Hopefully between protecting their team and investing countless hours to make this forum work someone up there will have the time to look down here and help out by clarifying what I ( well..we ) have yet to understand.

 

[Paul]

I'm not ignoring you, @photonmymind; I just didn't want to group you in with JB when my comments were directed at him. You raised valid points, and I'll relay them to the appropriate people. Unfortunately, I don't have a better response for you at the moment. I assure you I'll see that these issues are discussed, regardless of anything I said above.

My aplogies to JB: companies should handle criticism without objection. I jumped to the defense of our team and disregarded my normal policy on such matters, which was a mistake.

Edit: I can speculate that we're unlikely to directly display who deals with a report, simply because it would require too many modifications to the forum software. We found it disappointing that the software didn't already offer that feature when we first evaluated it. However, if you ever have a report that you'd like to inquire about, feel free to start a conversation with any admin.

 

[Kenny]

"Overall, the team is doing pretty well. One criticism is that you don't seem to be interested in supporting @Cyberian well in his quest to be the last human trying to use a modern site on IE v 8 or 7 or whatever."

Whoa bro, thanks for the concern, but I dont have a dog in this fight...lol

This is not directed at anyone, but just mt obversations....

Seriously, I've been on both sides of this type convo many times, as both a member and a mod of this community.

What I will say, is there is a huge difference between what goes on in the "Back of House" and what is seen in the "Front of House", and let me tell you, it's a lot of work back there.

When I worked here there were 100 maybe 150 thousand members.
Now how many are there... 800k? Lets just guess that 1/3 of those members are semi active and 1/10 activly active, thats still a lot of members, each with their own agenda.

So this might not be the only issue, (or even the biggest issue) going on right now behind the scenes. Just keep that in mind.

NP always has, and always will, prevail.


Peace,
Cy

 

[enlytend]

Namepros Best Of, you do it once a year.

2 weeks or so of nominations
2 weeks or so of voting

Best Registrar
Best Parking Company
Best Hosting
Best/Favorite Domain Tool
Best Domain Blog
etc.

Put in simple measures like minimum post count so companies don't have their employees bum rushing the forum, spiking the vote.

Participation, traffic etc. You know what usually happens with those that win? Makes them feel good, they use it as marketing. They'll put a NP banner on their site saying how they won, which drives traffic back to this site, good branding etc for both parties. I would bet most people on this forum would like that idea, just takes a little effort on NP's part.

This is a really good idea. I'd take it a few steps further - 1) during voting, engage with the participants - (for example: tweet and @ the candidates - you'll probably get retweets. 2) Make a badge with a link and GIVE it to the winners to post on their sites - don't make them think of it on their own . Also, set alerts for mentions and ask for a link back if someone blogs it w/o a link (should do that contest or not )

Re the PRO group - I don't think anyone has a problem with people forming a group. I think the choice of name was unfortunate. A "Domain Buyers Group" badge is pretty innocuous. However having members with a "PRO" badge appears to have created a ... a... a.. (sorry, I have to use this word - cringe) perception issue. Especially in light of the forum name.

 

[DU]

"Overall, the team is doing pretty well. One criticism is that you don't seem to be interested in supporting @Cyberian well in his quest to be the last human trying to use a modern site on IE v 8 or 7 or whatever."

Whoa bro, thanks for the concern, but I dont have a dog in this fight...lol

Tongue was planted firmly in cheek on that one! I have to get a dig in on your ancient browser whenever possible.

.. a.. (sorry, I have to use this word - cringe) perception issue. Especially in light of the forum name.

I would like to point out that my use of the word was literal. It was not intended as a reference to anyone who happens to have what I consider to be a pretty awesome domain/business name

 

[DU]

My aplogies to JB: companies should handle criticism without objection. I jumped to the defense of our team and disregarded my normal policy on such matters, which was a mistake.

But you can object! Read the SouthWest Airlines response here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-kjerulf/top-5-reasons-customer-service_b_5145636.html

You can object and it's important you do sometimes and it seems your heart was in the right place! I value your opinion on some matters because of your role and detail that you provide. Some of your posts, in general, are the most informative on the forum (mostly from a technical perspective, unsurprisingly). I think when you discuss your response to a DDOS, who how CloudFlare has been used, or why you switched from Apache are tremendous opportunities for the Blog section to both inform AND communicate.

So, @Paul Buonopane, that's my final suggestion - people will learn something and appreciate the effort. Blogging takes time so it wouldn't need to be daily or anything obscene - a quarterly technical report would be awesome. Look at expireddomainnames.net, or afraid.org - they include commentary when they re-write, add features. Not everyone reads it but I do (and maybe they aren't prominent enough if you already do this!).

So this might not be the only issue, (or even the biggest issue) going on right now behind the scenes. Just keep that in mind.

NP always has, and always will, prevail.

Peace,
Cy

Noted... and that's the hope of everyone, no?

 

[S-B]

The Pro Network isn't intended to create a disconnect between its members and the general NamePros community. The purpose is to give experienced members the ability to share information in a private setting. This group effectively executes that goal. I do not understand why some members have such an objection. The truth is we all have our own little circles within NamePros. Most of you have STS (or whatever the latest title is) to communicate with your clique. Why not give other members the same opportunity?

 

[enlytend]

That's perfectly fine - the name choice was unfortunate and that created an issue in the perception of what the badge implied. There's no easy way of conveying to the rest of the membership that it's just a group name and not some elite designation . Whether you empathize with their viewpoint or not is not important - fact remains it DID generate pushback.

Problem isnt with what it IS but with what people assume it is, and the lack of ability to effectively communicate otherwise.

Maybe tagging on "group" or "group member" would better clarify? IDK ... just throwing out ideas