What would you do if you had a list of best 50.000 unregistered domains?

[twiki]

Hypothetical question:

What would you do if you had a list of best ~50.000 unregistered domains?

But not enough cash today to register them. (that'd be like half mil)

Names that WILL sell in large % the next 5 years on 4-5 digit figures, based on growing scarcity, industry analysis, price history analysis and everything together analyzed and ranked by a computer big brain.

Sort of like an AI system of largest domain platforms would generate, if you want.

 

[jamesau]

If you knew with certainty that there was profit to be made you would take out a loan.

If you had some doubts you could seek investment. But good like finding investors to back something that you weren't willing to back yourself.

 

[twiki]

Some points that should help

Researching the value of names before buying anything.
Buy 1 or 2 names and then try and sell them, dont register a lot of names before you sell some, you have to renew them every year remember
Have some potential buyers before buying a name.
Stick to strong extensions like .COM
Focus on a niche you are familiar with
Check out namebio.com to see what type of names sell.
Don't overprice your names
Don't use Estibot and other automated appraisal tools, they dont mean anything.
Stay away from numbers and dont mix numbers & letters in domains
Stay away from company names (trademarks) ie: FordCars.com, AppleDeals.com, AndroidPhones.com etc
Stay away from hyphens
Shorter is often better with domains

Hope that helps

This is great general advice for beginners and can't agree more. But you're assuming too much. I don't have that large list you are talking about. Any list worth having should be much smaller, and the number I've thrown above is very high. It's possible only say 1000, or 5000 names would be worth regging.

The above doesn't tell me anything new, though there's nothing bad repeating it. I only invest in coms and have only one dashed domain. The one I like most though, and really undervalued advice, is about automated appraisal tools. Can't agree more = 100% utter rubbish. It really pisses me off to see every beginner flocking on those particular domains ranked high by Estibot and fighting over them in DropCatch. Sometimes they're good, but most times they're not good enough, it's just that everybody goes for them. What is useful though is to look at some other metrics as hints, but the value itself doesn't say anything. Most domains I sell are valued 0, and most all domains having high appraisal tool value are still not sold. Enough said. Experience and domainer's instinct are key. I guess this is not going to disappear soon even with all the tech everyone uses today.

It's interesting that you've seen this question before, well, I've seen it too. It's all in the quality of names though, isn't it? You need a lot of things to counter-check such a list, including direct niche experience. Which I'm going to observe (interesting aspect) also would make such a list highly personal and useless to a domainer not following the same style.

Side note namebio is good for seeing trends but there is a LOT of data missing from it, which also makes i highly unreliable and good for kw trends and checking domain history but not so much in establishing current value of a domain. Unfortunately there's no other better source for such data. Nobody has a list of say "almost all" sales.

Oh, and don't worry, you don't have anything to apologize for. In fact this is one great sane piece of advice anyone should have gone through when starting or a while after doing so. Perhaps even worth reading again from time to time if you went astray for some reason, although I see no reason personally as such things are burned deep into your brain and automated already in your selection process.

 

[twiki]

If you knew with certainty that there was profit to be made you would take out a loan.

If you had some doubts you could seek investment. But good like finding investors to back something that you weren't willing to back yourself.

Great comment and 100% correct; loan is the best option and a safe-ish one if you already are sure about the process and can bootstrap it with a side help from the loan. I said -ish because with lenders like banks there is also a lot of fine print that can bite back, and after 10 years of experience with various banks I personally really know a lot about that. Yesterday I was discussing with a friend that wants to take a loan and was about to make a grave mistake in choosing the bank, and I took him through the "forensic" profile of each local bank and who to use and who to stay away from, and for what reason. He was quite surprised to hear these, hope he will indeed follow my advice, for his own sake.

One thing to mention though is that not every domainer has good enough credit for something like this. And I've heard that in Canada for example it is very difficult to get a loan for a small business, because banks don't generally do that. I'm in Eastern Europe and here is difficult too, although personally I have no issues with that as my business history is quite strong, kind of one of the best locally so banks are periodically pestering us with calls to offer credit lines and the sorts. But again it might not be possible anywhere.

 

[gilescoley]

This is great general advice for beginners and can't agree more. But you're assuming too much. I don't have that large list you are talking about. Any list worth having should be much smaller, and the number I've thrown above is very high. It's possible only say 1000, or 5000 names would be worth regging.

The above doesn't tell me anything new, though there's nothing bad repeating it. I only invest in coms and have only one dashed domain. The one I like most though, and really undervalued advice, is about automated appraisal tools. Can't agree more = 100% utter rubbish. It really pisses me off to see every beginner flocking on those particular domains ranked high by Estibot and fighting over them in DropCatch. Sometimes they're good, but most times they're not good enough, it's just that everybody goes for them. What is useful though is to look at some other metrics as hints, but the value itself doesn't say anything. Most domains I sell are valued 0, and most all domains having high appraisal tool value are still not sold. Enough said. Experience and domainer's instinct are key. I guess this is not going to disappear soon even with all the tech everyone uses today.

It's interesting that you've seen this question before, well, I've seen it too. It's all in the quality of names though, isn't it? You need a lot of things to counter-check such a list, including direct niche experience. Which I'm going to observe (interesting aspect) also would make such a list highly personal and useless to a domainer not following the same style.

Side note namebio is good for seeing trends but there is a LOT of data missing from it, which also makes i highly unreliable and good for kw trends and checking domain history but not so much in establishing current value of a domain. Unfortunately there's no other better source for such data. Nobody has a list of say "almost all" sales.

Oh, and don't worry, you don't have anything to apologize for. In fact this is one great sane piece of advice anyone should have gone through when starting or a while after doing so. Perhaps even worth reading again from time to time if you went astray for some reason, although I see no reason personally as such things are burned deep into your brain and automated already in your selection process.

Good luck with the whatever you decide

 

[twiki]

Good luck with the whatever you decide

hehe, if there's anything to decide on... my strength is in expired ones, not in regs. So any such venturing needs a VERY large grain of salt before even starting.

I see it as an extremely high risk approach and needing to factor in almost any aspect that can jeopardize the outcome. Tough. It's just that I think it is possible based on statistics and personal exploring, but that doesn't make it easier.

BTW - as someone who went through many business startups I also see the power of unknown ahead, it's mind boggling. Such as being able to correctly identify if the moment is right for your startup. Chances are high you are either too soon or too late. And you also need a stroke of luck to get it right. People think it's a greatly defined process based on strong business plan and the sorts. Well in most cases ain't because just one unknown factor showing its head and your plan is not worth the paper you printed it on.

 

[bmugford]

I am highly skeptical that there could even be a list of "best 50.000 unregistered domains", never mind it actual existing.

What makes a domain good is too subjective.

Brad

 

[twiki]

I am highly skeptical that there could even be a list of "best 50.000 unregistered domains", never mind it actual existing.

What makes a domain good is too subjective.

Brad

Correct, "great for self" as in matching domainer's style. Can be useful though to similar styled domainers that deal in the same niches. But definitely not general; and such a general list can't exist.

 

[bmugford]

Correct, "great for self" as in matching domainer's style. Can be useful though to similar styled domainers that deal in the same niches. But definitely not general; and such a general list can't exist.

Are we talking .COM? If so, there are 140M+ registered.

Odds are most of these "great" domains are not that great.

Brad

 

[twiki]

Are we talking .COM? If so, there are 140M+ registered.

Odds are most of these "great" domains are not that great.

Brad

Those are the odds indeed.

 

[urlurl]

grab a sample 1000 from this list, reg them, list for sale and wait, if you dont sell 2% (20
names) for $x,xxx range - then the list wasnt worth it

if you sell 2%+, grab 1000 more and repeat

why gamble with 50,000 unknowns, when a sample size of a thousand will tell you if you are on the right track

 

[twiki]

grab a sample 1000 from this list, reg them, list for sale and wait, if you dont sell 2% (20
names) for $x,xxx range - then the list wasnt worth it

if you sell 2%+, grab 1000 more and repeat

why gamble with 50,000 unknowns, when a sample size of a thousand will tell you if you are on the right track

Great answer! Well you might lose some during this time (if not many), but I guess there should still be some meat cause otherwise some wouldn't have been there even today in the first place.

 

[jmcc]

Hypothetical question:

What would you do if you had a list of best ~50.000 unregistered domains?

The number of registered and deleted domain names is larger than the number of registered domain names. At times, it can be like looking at a database of broken dreams where people all thought that they were going to make millions from their registrations.

Many potentially valuable domain names went through Domain Tasting between 2005 and 2008. The ones that made money from PPC were kept and the ones that did not were dropped. Over a billion (1,000,000,000) .COM domain names were tasted. The stats are in the free chapters of the Domnomics book on the "Look Inside" link and they are quite staggering. With .COM, the expectation of being able to register 50K potentially high value domain names is akin to expecting to be able to still buy Manhattan for about $24 of trinkets. Some valuable domain names can still be hand registered but it is often a case of waiting for the market to develop. That means renewal fees. That's 50K reg fees + x year's renewal fees. Most of those registrations will not sell in the first year or even the second. That risks a situation where the renewals are being funded by sales. The profit from a great 4 or 5 digit sale will be burned on renewal fees for the domain names that did not sell. This is the side of portfolio domaining that is rarely discussed. And with 50K registrations, it is domaining at the level where it makes sense to have an ICANN accredited registrar instead of operating via retail registrars. If the 50K list is any good, it might be possible to monetise it with PPC.

Names that WILL sell in large % the next 5 years on 4-5 digit figures, based on growing scarcity, industry analysis, price history analysis and everything together analyzed and ranked by a computer big brain.

Apart from high value keywords and short domain names, there is no guarantee that any other domain names on this hypothetical list will sell. The major unknown is the effect of .WEB, if it ever launches, as it more, than any of the new gTLDs, will impact .COM resale prices.

The problem with five year projections is that even the .COM is beginning to experience instabilities due to Asian market discounting. These registrations do not renew well. At the moment, one year renewal rates in .COM are around 57%. The blended renewal rate (all years) is around 72%. The problem for .COM, apart from discounting, is that growth in many country level markets outside the US is plateaued and the volume of growth has shifted to the local ccTLDs. Rather than focusing on a hypothetical list it would be better to understand the dynamics of the market before investing and the decide on then prospects for the list.

Regards...jmcc

 

[jmcc]

Not necessarily never registered. Maybe registered and dropped in those ol' years when domains were still plentiful, then by accident missed to be brought again in the spotlight.

Wow! All those years I've spent watching Goldrush on Discovery Channel and I have my very own gold mine.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Over a billion (1,000,000,000) .COM domain names were tasted.

I just wanted to highlight that amazing statistic from @jmcc book. For every .com registered today about 7x as many were tasted in the past. Wow. I am buying your book in morning and look forward to reading the whole thing.
Bob

 

[NameAgency]

If an AI system can filter 50.000 domains, the same AI system can filter the best 100 among these 50,000, right?

 

[Ntmt]

If, however, all the domains from "final list" are still available for handreg after some time - it would mean that the list is not that good

It is so true!

 

[IPBFlippers]

Hypothetical answer:

What qualifies as "best unregistered" domain names in your hypothesis?

I would like to know.

Also, remember that it is what is paid for a domain name that determines its value not what you think it is worth.

 

[Ntmt]

I would register amount which I can afford. Later if the list is so good it will yield me funds for buying the rest of them (I doubt that all of them will be registered by others, but some will). If the list is bad - this approach will save my money.

 

[tomcarl]

People still use Estibot?

 

[twiki]

The number of registered and deleted domain names is larger than the number of registered domain names. At times, it can be like looking at a database of broken dreams where people all thought that they were going to make millions from their registrations.

Many potentially valuable domain names went through Domain Tasting between 2005 and 2008. The ones that made money from PPC were kept and the ones that did not were dropped. Over a billion (1,000,000,000) .COM domain names were tasted. The stats are in the free chapters of the Domnomics book on the "Look Inside" link and they are quite staggering. With .COM, the expectation of being able to register 50K potentially high value domain names is akin to expecting to be able to still buy Manhattan for about $24 of trinkets. Some valuable domain names can still be hand registered but it is often a case of waiting for the market to develop. That means renewal fees. That's 50K reg fees + x year's renewal fees. Most of those registrations will not sell in the first year or even the second. That risks a situation where the renewals are being funded by sales. The profit from a great 4 or 5 digit sale will be burned on renewal fees for the domain names that did not sell. This is the side of portfolio domaining that is rarely discussed. And with 50K registrations, it is domaining at the level where it makes sense to have an ICANN accredited registrar instead of operating via retail registrars. If the 50K list is any good, it might be possible to monetise it with PPC.

Apart from high value keywords and short domain names, there is no guarantee that any other domain names on this hypothetical list will sell. The major unknown is the effect of .WEB, if it ever launches, as it more, than any of the new gTLDs, will impact .COM resale prices.

The problem with five year projections is that even the .COM is beginning to experience instabilities due to Asian market discounting. These registrations do not renew well. At the moment, one year renewal rates in .COM are around 57%. The blended renewal rate (all years) is around 72%. The problem for .COM, apart from discounting, is that growth in many country level markets outside the US is plateaued and the volume of growth has shifted to the local ccTLDs. Rather than focusing on a hypothetical list it would be better to understand the dynamics of the market before investing and the decide on then prospects for the list.

Regards...jmcc

Great answer with a lot of market insight. No surprise, more experienced / informed domainers are likely to be pessimistic about such an endeavor, and with valuable arguments brought forward.

This is, however, still a hypothetical thread / idea and number, and interesting for discussion.

I personally like to explore places where everybody says it's all taken. That's how I built my businesses over the years - being completely out of the box, dissonant, against the mainstream, sometimes even annoying to the firm beliefs of others. But that's where I always found gold. This doesn't mean though I'm getting in this tomorrow, but merely exploring the thought for now.

The math does you right. However, I believe the same math does my idea right as well. Out of a billion domains that are not there anymore, or ever registered, there has to be something left. Statistically at least. But that's a mammoth task for a very powerful system. The 50K number is also a hypothesis; maybe the right number is 50 or 500. I can't tell and know no one who can tell right now.

Anyway - you brought up something very important, something I forgot to mention.

The AI will follow current trends and emerging markets. That's where the money is, and greatest likelihood to get something nice. I haven't mentioned this because I thought it's kind of obvious. So rather than scouring and regging, you have this theoretical system that can - woosh - reg out the niche.

I'm theorizing, of course, but all interesting new things have started by exploring and certain ideas, sometimes even not new ideas. But of course, for each positive outcome there must be 10,000 dead ends out there.

 

[twiki]

People still use Estibot?

Yeah - scaring thought.

 

[twiki]

I would register amount which I can afford. Later if the list is so good it will yield me funds for buying the rest of them (I doubt that all of them will be registered by others, but some will). If the list is bad - this approach will save my money.

This is some sane approach indeed!

 

[twiki]

Hypothetical answer:

What qualifies as "best unregistered" domain names in your hypothesis?

I would like to know.

This is an answer that differs from domainer to domainer. Insert yours.

I agree on subjectivity but that's a different discussion altogether. The simple idea is, you program the AI to mirror your investor persona and let it run on that.

 

[tonyk2000]

The AI will follow current trends and emerging markets.

But it still cannot have our professional intuition... It is neither good nor bad. Just the reality.

 

[twiki]

But it still cannot have our professional intuition... It is neither good nor bad. Just the reality.

Sure thing.