question Does the domain I own have a trademark?

[MeetDomain]

Hi All,

I want to ask about several domains that I own, and whether they have a trademark or not. If I have a trademark, can I still market it to the company or brand in question?

These are my domain:
meetbard.net, zurichinternational.net, marca.news

 

[DrJacoby]

Check trademarks here.

 

[cabotower]

uspto.gov...the most accurate place to check for a U.S trademark is on the U.S government site

 

[Peter45]

Hi All,

I want to ask about several domains that I own, and whether they have a trademark or not. If I have a trademark, can I still market it to the company or brand in question?

The best starting point to find trademarks is, of course, Google, but I've pretty much given up on trying to explain that anymore.

uspto.gov...the most accurate place to check for a U.S trademark is on the U.S government site

From this, I assume that you are looking at the USPTO database and making conclusions based on data records in that database, instead of using Google to figure out whether someone is using something as a trademark.

Long story short - the USPTO does not grant "trademarks". If you have a trademark you might, or might not, decide you want to register that trademark with the USPTO to obtain a registration.

But "having a trademark" and "having a registration at the USPTO" are not the same thing.

You see JB?
I'm learning!

 

[cabotower]

You see JB?
I'm learning!

don't forget...Common Law

 

[MeetDomain]

You see JB?
I'm learning!

Thank you for your very helpful information. If one of the domains I own has a trademark, will if I tell the owner of the brand or trade name they will say I am cybersquatting?

 

[BaileyUK]

Don't approach a trademark owner to sell a 'matched' domain. FULL-STOP. No matter Who, What and When regarding a domain it's not a good idea.

And Yes they will see you as cyber squatter trying to take advantage of their business mark. Whether they choose to do anything about it is another matter.

 

[Peter45]

Hi All,

I want to ask about several domains that I own, and whether they have a trademark or not. If I have a trademark, can I still market it to the company or brand in question?

These are my domain:
meetbard.net, zurichinternational.net, marca.news

@MeetDomain
this is a non-expert speaking: google whether in your country someone is using those names (or similar ones) as a TM.

If yes, follow Bailey's advice : )

Take a peek also into the TM registration database of your country

I hope that someday, domainers and the "someone told me" consultancy gives up their insane and usually irrelevant obsession with trademark registration databases.

another JB's gem

 

[cooljub]

All probably more trouble than they're worth. I would drop them.

 

[jberryhill]

You see JB?
I'm learning!

The other thing you'll notice about a lot of the questions on Namepros is that there is an implicit understanding of the basic idea of trademarks, but the obsession with trademark registration databases gets in the way. Using no trademark database at all, it's pretty obvious where the OP is getting their domain name ideas, since Google easily shows...

So, you don't really have to wonder where the idea of "marca.news" comes from...

Again, there's no mystery here, as ten seconds with Google demonstrates "Marca" is a prominent Spanish news publication. This being Namepros, of course, along comes the helpful suggestion to check the trademark registration database in the US, which is totally irrelevant to the apparent motivation to register the domain name.

It is worth mentioning that "Marca" is also a dictionary word. But, in combination with "news" and with zero hint as to what, if anything, this domain name is going to be doing, again, it's pretty clear that saying "Oh, check a trademark database somewhere" is not going to be extremely helpful in addressing the root misunderstanding here.

The underlying more important question of "can I go try to sell someone domain names that are obviously premised on their marks" is driven home by the entire trio really. Again, not even five seconds with Google...

You don't even need to click on anything to read, in the first Google result, that they've been around since 1982.

That one is a good example because, sure, you get some minor sprinkling among the results of an academic program of some kind, but when the first, say, 50 or so Google results are all pointing at a huge international insurance business, and only one huge international insurance business, then it's safe to say that "Zurich International" is not some generic term for insurance but is a distinctive identifier of one entity in the relevant insurance market. That is the very definition of a trademark.

The last one is equally as sad, but also shows another useful feature of Google - the "related searches" or questions that Google generates in response to a query... at the bottom of these results:

Gee... it looks like the search term "meet bard" turns up a bunch of "Related questions" all of which have to do with the Google product. Now, sure, it's Google's search engine, but let's get real. Do you think there is a market for a domain name that is descriptive of wandering poets?

Continuing with the search results, it's pretty clear that "Meet Bard" is, in fact, the name of Google's introductory video:

And, again, none of the first batch of Google results has anything to do with anything other than Google's product.

Could someone coincidentally stumble onto one of these names by happenstance? Sure.

In a large domain portfolio will some domain names have incidentally significance as trademarks? Sure.

But this OP really crystallizes the basic problem we see here time and time again. The OP manages a perfect three for three shot of domain names that are obviously based on trademarks, but the question arises from the apparent notion that a "trademark" is some kind of special status beyond "a mark used to distinctively identify the goods or services of one source from another in a relevant marketplace." As long as folks think a trademark is "some kind of government certificate registered in a database somewhere", then the point will continue to be missed.

This also points up the sort of thing I mean when I talk about "all of the relevant facts". While the UDRP doesn't have a mechanism for compelling the production of data from third parties, if we are talking about potential litigation in, say, the United States, then there are ways of getting that data. What data? Well...

If a trademark owner files a lawsuit over a domain name you have at GoDaddy, for example, then one of the first things that trademark owner is going to do is to issue a subpoena to GoDaddy to obtain a list of ALL domain names registered to the same account, a list of GoDaddy accounts using the same email address or other contact information, a list of domain names registered to all of those accounts, and a list of all domain names that have ever been registered to any of those accounts. That's going to provide some important context.

As applied here, someone could say, as I did above, "But 'marca' is just a dictionary word and the domain name could be used for things other than sports news in Spain!" That's certainly true, but when the subpoena responses come back, and let's suppose that these are the only three names in the account, then the entire context more strongly supports the inference that the registrant was collecting domain names suggestive of trademarks, and not dictionary words.

 

[MeetDomain]

Don't approach a trademark owner to sell a 'matched' domain. FULL-STOP. No matter Who, What and When regarding a domain it's not a good idea.

And Yes they will see you as cyber squatter trying to take advantage of their business mark. Whether they choose to do anything about it is another matter.

The other thing you'll notice about a lot of the questions on Namepros is that there is an implicit understanding of the basic idea of trademarks, but the obsession with trademark registration databases gets in the way. Using no trademark database at all, it's pretty obvious where the OP is getting their domain name ideas, since Google easily shows...

Show attachment 246146

So, you don't really have to wonder where the idea of "marca.news" comes from...

Show attachment 246147

Again, there's no mystery here, as ten seconds with Google demonstrates "Marca" is a prominent Spanish news publication. This being Namepros, of course, along comes the helpful suggestion to check the trademark registration database in the US, which is totally irrelevant to the apparent motivation to register the domain name.

It is worth mentioning that "Marca" is also a dictionary word. But, in combination with "news" and with zero hint as to what, if anything, this domain name is going to be doing, again, it's pretty clear that saying "Oh, check a trademark database somewhere" is not going to be extremely helpful in addressing the root misunderstanding here.

The underlying more important question of "can I go try to sell someone domain names that are obviously premised on their marks" is driven home by the entire trio really. Again, not even five seconds with Google...


Show attachment 246149


You don't even need to click on anything to read, in the first Google result, that they've been around since 1982.

That one is a good example because, sure, you get some minor sprinkling among the results of an academic program of some kind, but when the first, say, 50 or so Google results are all pointing at a huge international insurance business, and only one huge international insurance business, then it's safe to say that "Zurich International" is not some generic term for insurance but is a distinctive identifier of one entity in the relevant insurance market. That is the very definition of a trademark.

The last one is equally as sad, but also shows another useful feature of Google - the "related searches" or questions that Google generates in response to a query... at the bottom of these results:

Show attachment 246150

Gee... it looks like the search term "meet bard" turns up a bunch of "Related questions" all of which have to do with the Google product. Now, sure, it's Google's search engine, but let's get real. Do you think there is a market for a domain name that is descriptive of wandering poets?

Continuing with the search results, it's pretty clear that "Meet Bard" is, in fact, the name of Google's introductory video:


Show attachment 246151


And, again, none of the first batch of Google results has anything to do with anything other than Google's product.

Could someone coincidentally stumble onto one of these names by happenstance? Sure.

In a large domain portfolio will some domain names have incidentally significance as trademarks? Sure.

But this OP really crystallizes the basic problem we see here time and time again. The OP manages a perfect three for three shot of domain names that are obviously based on trademarks, but the question arises from the apparent notion that a "trademark" is some kind of special status beyond "a mark used to distinctively identify the goods or services of one source from another in a relevant marketplace." As long as folks think a trademark is "some kind of government certificate registered in a database somewhere", then the point will continue to be missed. Over and over and over...

Correct. This makes perfect sense and refers to my original intention of purchasing the domain. I think this is the wrong first step to start domain investment. Basically, I want to sell to related brands that they might forget to buy other TLD alternatives. So what should I do going forward? Should I just delete this domain from a domain marketplace like afternic or godaddy?

 

[MeetDomain]

Don't approach a trademark owner to sell a 'matched' domain. FULL-STOP. No matter Who, What and When regarding a domain it's not a good idea.

And Yes they will see you as cyber squatter trying to take advantage of their business mark. Whether they choose to do anything about it is another matter.

That's right, I think in the future I will create a domain name that is more creative and does not intersect with the brand name. I am currently contacting them via email that I accidentally purchased a domain similar to their trademark. Yes, at least, I really want this domain to be bought by them at the same price as when I first bought them.

 

[BaileyUK]

Written before above post seen

It's your call. Owning a TM domain is in itself is not an infringement. You could leave them listed for sale, but then you have to accept any consequences should the TM owners feel they have a valid case.

So can you get away with leaving them listed. The straight answer is Probably, Possibly, Maybe. We are not the TM holders so we don't know how they view your actions or intent.

You could just leave them as they are at a very low price, say a couple of hundred dollars each. I'm not advising you just pointing out a possible choice that may not conclude in unwanted action. Going forward, don't think your doing TM holders a favour by treading on their turf is my advice.

Regarding your above post. I wouldn't contact them - are you really that desperate to recover a couple of tens of dollars. I don't think so and probably neither will the TM holders, they'll probably see it as a starting gun for you trying to get more.

Don't try to play the good-fellow when you make a mistake - just move on

 

[MeetDomain]

Written before above post seen

It's your call. Owning a TM domain is in itself is not an infringement. You could leave them listed for sale, but then you have to accept any consequences should the TM owners feel they have a valid case.

So can you get away with leaving them listed. The straight answer is Probably, Possibly, Maybe. We are not the TM holders so we don't know how they view your actions or intent.

You could just leave them as they are at a very low price, say a couple of hundred dollars each. I'm not advising you just pointing out a possible choice that may not conclude in unwanted action. Going forward, don't think your doing TM holders a favour by treading on their turf is my advice.

Regarding your above post. I wouldn't contact them - are you really that desperate to recover a couple of tens of dollars. I don't think so and probably neither will the TM holders, they'll probably see it as a starting gun for you trying to get more.

Don't try to play the good-fellow when you make a mistake - just move on

OK, I'll still sell it on the domain market. However, what I will avoid is activating a website with that domain name. I think this is quite clear. Thank you!

 

[Peter45]

This being Namepros, of course, along comes the helpful suggestion to check the trademark registration database in the US, which is totally irrelevant to the apparent motivation to register the domain name.

Indeed

I get the point that database registrations have at best a subsidiary function vs. the results coming out of empirical research (google), but that aside, one thing I never understood is why so often here in the forum there is mention of the US TM registration database (uspto) even when the country of the domainer isn't clear - like in this case.

As if in order to establish whether a particular phrase is a TM or not, the US TM database were more important than other countries' TM databases.

As if in order to establish whether a domainer is in bad faith or not - irrespective of the country he's living in - him checking the US TM database were more important than him checking other countries' TM databases (or even the TM database of the country he's living in).

I understand the relevance of the US TM database for US domainers, but I cannot understand its relevance for non-US domainers.

 

[Peter45]

That's right, I think in the future I will create a domain name that is more creative and does not intersect with the brand name. I am currently contacting them via email that I accidentally purchased a domain similar to their trademark. Yes, at least, I really want this domain to be bought by them at the same price as when I first bought them.

I think the only reason why right now your Impact Score isn't -45 is because of this thread I opened in order to protect newbies from getting bombed down

 

[Peter45]

I am currently contacting them via email that I accidentally purchased a domain similar to their trademark.

Good idea
only problem is, JB has just showed us that it wasn't accidentally, so you are lying to them

 

[jberryhill]

one thing I never understood is why so often here in the forum there is mention of the US TM registration database

A puzzler for the ages, along with why people like Trademarkia, which doesn't provide complete information, access to the underlying filings, etc..

The best all-around tool for registration data is TMVIEW, https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/#/tmview , which draws on API's to dozens of national trademark registration systems and WIPO Madrid System filings. But it still helps to know what you are looking at.

I am currently contacting them via email that I accidentally purchased a domain similar to their trademark.

You do know that they can read Namepros too, right?

 

[Yoga Trillion]

OK, I'll still sell it on the domain market. However, what I will avoid is activating a website with that domain name. I think this is quite clear. Thank you!

Today, I read an article, which was shared by our community member.

Thought, Could be best suitable for your scenario.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/lvmh-wins-domain-name-dispute-over-hotel-chain.1310942/

First, visit his website and at the very end of an article, you will find the link, You can read the full WIPO case here – WIPO Case No. D2023-3318 click and read.

Let us know, whether it was helpful or not?

 

[Peter45]

Good idea

@MeetDomain
just to avoid misunderstandings, that's not a good idea : )

The whole point of any TM infringement regulations is to prevent you and me to capitalize on other people's efforts

When we make mistakes we can always try with the classics I didn't know, How could I know,
but when you take those domains and go to the owners of those TMs, it's clear that you are knowingly trying to capitalize on the name of that company (or their products), a name which you know they established through work/energy/money/time/efforts/creativity etc.

In other words, it's clear that you are trying to capitalize on other people's work, energy, money, time, efforts, creativity etc.

That's the quintessence of what WIPO regulations call bad faith.

Imo

You do know that they can read Namepros too, right?

Yes but maybe they skip lengthy postings
: )

 

[MeetDomain]

Today, I read an article, which was shared by our community member.

Thought, Could be best suitable for your scenario.

namepros.com/threads/lvmh-wins-domain-name-dispute-over-hotel-chain.1310942/

First, visit his website and at the very end of an article, you will find the link, You can read the full WIPO case here – WIPO Case No. D2023-3318 click and read.

Let us know, whether it was helpful or not?

I just read this and I understand. In fact, Belmond Management reported this case to WIPO because an irresponsible person used the domain name belmondhotelbali.com as a fraud, not mutually beneficial.

If I have the same domain as a brand and apply as an affiliate for their products and carry out activities that are profitable for both parties. Is that possible?

 

[MeetDomain]

@MeetDomain
just to avoid misunderstandings, that's not a good idea : )

The whole point of any TM infringement regulations is to prevent you and me to capitalize on other people's efforts

When we make mistakes we can always try with the classics I didn't know, How could I know,
but when you take those domains and go to the owners of those TMs, it's clear that you are knowingly trying to capitalize on the name of that company (or their products), a name which you know they established through work/energy/money/time/efforts/creativity etc.

In other words, it's clear that you are trying to capitalize on other people's work, energy, money, time, efforts, creativity etc.

That's the quintessence of what WIPO regulations call bad faith.

Imo



Yes but maybe they skip lengthy postings
: )

Okay. Maybe I'll stop constantly sending email offers to related brands and let them search and find domains I already own and buy these domains without any direction from me.

 

[Yoga Trillion]

If I have the same domain as a brand and apply as an affiliate for their products and carry out activities that are profitable for both parties. Is that possible?

Okay, let's get started.

Imagine this scenario: You've registered a domain name and started working with a brand's products as an affiliate. Suddenly, the same brand complains and sends you a notice, demanding that you cease your activities, either through legal action or forcefully. What would your reaction be? Think about the time, money, and effort you've invested.

Let's explore whether this is possible or not.

I can see that your approach is genuine, and let me explain step by step. Many newcomers to the SEO and affiliate marketing industry have similar thoughts.

To achieve this, the very first and common approach is to check the affiliate marketing program policies, which are often found in the footer section of their website.

Now, the main question is, have you ever checked their website before registering any domain names to see if their brand can be used in your domain name to promote their products? Be honest with yourself.


However, many companies do not like or appreciate such an approach. Initially, they require proof that you can provide proper/good benefits to their brand or company. In this digital age, I mean you should have legitimate traffic on your blog or website. Only then will you get approved. They believe that if everyone is allowed to use their brand name, it could potentially harm their brand reputation, as you are aware, people are skilled at spamming and using various tactics. Hence, they have strict affiliate marketing policies, and going against these policies could lead to permanent blacklisting.

I won't tell you what is possible and what is not. Everything depends on your motivation, faith, determination, desire, and the role models you follow, as well as your mindset. Even if your approach is genuine, if you work blindly, it may not only impact your time, money, and efforts but also negatively affect others who might see you as a fraudster using their brand name. I hope you understand the importance of this.

Also, you can see that you've received valuable responses from experienced members and their advice. You should either learn from them or follow your instincts.

Don't forget to share your experience with us, whether it was detrimental/bad or beneficial. We can all learn from each other's experiences, both good and bad.

I think I should stop here.

I just read this and I understand. In fact, Belmond Management reported this case to WIPO because an irresponsible person used the domain name belmondhotelbali.com as a fraud, not mutually beneficial.

Ohh, by the way, I forgot to mention that the domain name was never used.
Did you notice on that docs: Under C. Registered and Used in Bad Faith:
The Respondent appears never to have used the disputed domain.
Additionally, one similar domain name was transferred to the same company. Note that both names were inactive and registered by different domain owners according to the whois information. Now, it's up to you to decide where your initial idea of a mutually beneficial and profitable partnership lies.

That's all from my side!

Tech care and enjoy the journey!

 

[jberryhill]

If I have the same domain as a brand and apply as an affiliate for their products and carry out activities that are profitable for both parties. Is that possible?

Provide an example.

When you apply as an affiliate marketer, you agree to the rules of the affiliate program.

For example, Amazon:

https://affiliate-program.amazon.co...Associates Program Participation Requirements

"Unsuitable Sites include those that:

(g) include any trademark of Amazon or its affiliates, or a variant or misspelling of a trademark of Amazon or its affiliates in any domain name"

You'll find terms like this in pretty much any affiliate program. And of course, this exact behavior has been the subject of countless UDRPs and lawsuits...

https://www.adrforum.com/DomainDecisions/2052292.htm

Further, Complainant provides evidence that the Respondent uses the disputed domain name to redirect internet users to Complainant’s own website to generate affiliate commissions. Such use is in breach of Complainant’s affiliate programme and is neither a bona fide offering of goods or services pursuant to Policy ¶ 4(c)(i), nor a legitimate non-commercial or fair use pursuant to Policy ¶ 4(c)(iii).