debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[J Sokol]

Here's David Attenborough's reply to a five-year-old asking what he can do to save the planet:
“You can do more and more and more the longer you live, but the best motto to think about is not waste things,” Attenborough replied. “Don’t waste electricity, don’t waste paper, don’t waste food. Live the way you want to live but just don’t waste. Look after the natural world, and the animals in it, and the plants in it too. This is their planet as well as ours. Don’t waste them.”
I especially like his comment that the planet belongs to plants and animals as well as to humans.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...tenborough-advice-bbc-seven-worlds-one-planet

 

[J Sokol]

Thunberg turns down green award over Nordic 'bragging'

For a 16-year-old, she has an amazing capacity to cut through the B.S.

"While thanking the council for the 'huge honour', she said the 'climate movement does not need any more awards'." She noted that Sweden is living "as if it had about four planets."

 

[oldtimer]

Yes, that's what I was wondering. I find it both heartening that these coordinated efforts are underway to remedy our climate crisis but disheartening that after these many years of work, we are still in such dire straights.

Hopefully they'll take things much more seriously in this conference,

This might be the last chance to take some concrete actions towards saving our Home Planet before it reaches the point of no return.

Climate Change is Accelerating.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Congrats to Greta,

The thing is most of the people who complain about her no one has ever heard of beyond their immediate circle, but the World now knows Greta and that makes her voice very powerful, I hope that she continues to use her new found status to serve Humanity and this Planet.

IMO

 

[Cal2]

Just heard in the news that Greta has called for World leaders to be put "against the wall" if they fail to act on climate change (way to go Greta).

Now I know that she didn't mean that literally, but it would be logical to hold those who commit crimes against the Environment accountable the same way that people are held accountable for commiting crimes against Humanity.

According to a few articles I pulled up to check it out, that wasn't her meaning. It was about putting pressure on politicians to do their jobs and hold them accountable.

"We have to make sure that they cannot do that," she said. "We will make sure they, that we put them against the wall, and that they will have to do their job and to protect our futures."

In Swedish, the phrase "putting someone against the wall" means someone is forced to address difficult questions of a difficult situation."


Makes sense. How you would put someone against a wall and finish them, then expect them to do their jobs.....

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...t-against-the-wall/ar-AAK8zS5?ocid=spartandhp

 

[J Sokol]

Unfortunately with the pandemic going around some of the attention has been taken away from the Environment, but at the same time because of the slow down and in some cases the shut down of some very highly polluting factories in places like China the air quality has improved by a noticeable degree.

Fortunately, there are some silver linings to the pandemic. Cleaner air is one and a drop in car accident rates is another. Maybe we will all rethink our lifestyles a bit after the storm has passed.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-pan...e3a8db-9a58-4285-9ab4-8147e495794e_popular4-1

 

[Cannuck]

^ Indeed! These reqions are employing old methods of slash and burn agriculture, clearing land mostly for monocroppping. The archaic practice of cutting down of natural forests & burning which releases the carbon into the atmosphere does not help carbon remain in the soil where it can be used by plants. With current agricultural practices in some of the poorer countries, soil erosion and , desertification and carbon denudation is problematic for long-term sustainability. The use of GMO's, artificial fertilizers and pesticides, including the machinery, fossil fuels, packaging, processing and shipping is another indirect impact.

@Cal2 mentioned 3D agriculture which uses the oceans to produce crops. This may be one solution, especially the use of seaweed as fertilizer. Seaweed can supplement the soil and be added to livestock.

Tilling the soil in spring also releases carbon from the soil and reduces the diversity of soil organisms. Having a fallow period, maybe 1 out of every 4 years, allows the soil to rejuvenate. There are a number of practices we currently employ that directly contribute, but the problem also rests with societies intake and demand, overpopulation, Global economy and National policies etc. that have a large indirect impact. There is much to be learned and fortunately, I believe there are solutions as discussed in the video I cited above.

 

[mr-x]

If the adults don't do something, maybe the children will, after all, it is they (the meek) who shall inherit the Earth.

4 simple steps you can do this year to make an impact on the environment and keep carbon out of the atmosphere.

1) Plant a garden. A big community garden. No till method uses compost, cardboard, canvas, paper.

• Requires an initial investment in compost. About $30 a yard in my town.
• Use wood chips to smother weeds. Not clean wood chips, get them strait from the Arborist with the leaves, bark, etc. Use chips instead of walkways. Keep gravel in your driveways.

2) Plant lots of perennials. Fruit and nut trees, berry bushes, berry vines, etc.. Plant multiple varieties that ripen at different times.

3) Stop buying new stuff. When you need something you will keep for years but use occasionally, i.e. a pressure washer, utility trailer, buy used.

4) Buy a bike ( even an electric bike ) and use it instead of a car to make short trips to the store, etc.

Children learn best by example. ( and turn that light off! )

 

[sonatime]

Crimes against Humanity
Planning the pandemic

 

[HotKey]

Definitely care. Cared since I was a kid. We all can care all we want. The only answer is within ourselves, and making individual choices that, collectively, will make enough of an impact.

It starts with good parenting. Screw that up, better suit up for battle for the rest of your life. You don't build a foundation after the fact.

Brazil is a sovereign nation. We're all laying on them, I do hope it helps. It's not only the rainforests that we are losing, there are precious peoples that have been lost or been forced deeper and deeper into the jungles of the Amazon. They do not want our ways, and we force it upon them. This is not right now is it?

Our need for consumerism is at the very heart of the problem. Like the pandemic. I have never seen the roads or stores busier. Buy buy buy, produce produce produce. Slow it down people. Back to the drawing board.

Let this message resonate, for it is NOW:

"We are at one of the great turning points in human history when the survival of our planet and the restoration of our humanity require a great sea change in our ecological, economic, political, and spiritual values." - Grace Lee Bogs

**

 

[Cal2]

Prince William and Sir David Attenborough join forces on 'Earthshot' prize

"A study found the further the problem in question is from the people who come up with a workable solution, the more likely they are to solve it."

"And it explains why Prince William and Sir David Attenborough are saying don't hesitate to apply if you think you've got an idea that could help"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54435638

 

[oldtimer]

Over the last year I built a tinyhome back east on a piece of land, developed an off-grid solar farm and planted my own crop. The fishing isn't all that good anymore, so I moved to a remote northern community where it is Covid-free. My diet consists mostly of game now, the fish are plentiful and the moose is shared among the tribe. I don't drive, but I bought a ski-doo for the winter to go ice fishing. I work with youth and elders, and the local medicine man to bring back the age-old traditions. Collected some berries and medicine today.

Oh yeah, I've been networking with some keen Environmentally-friendly people I met in this thread, and started another general thread: Earth Matters, so what's holding us back (just recently been getting traction and some other feedback), it's kind of ridiculous talking to yourself I registered a domain and started a webpage: projectblueplanet.com (but it's not easy to work via satellite and my computer crapped out). That's the latest news, been doing this for years

I value the work that people like you do if it helps save the Humanity and the Environment and I tend not to think of such people in terms of politics, but rather I try to think of them as those whom I share a common cause with.

I myself am not 100% committed to either the Right or the Left of the political spectrum and although there are some things that I find to be good on each side, but there are also some policies and ideologies that I have issues with both when it comes to the people on the Right and on the Left.

For example I like the fact that people on the Left care a little more about the Environment and our Home Planet, but I am not very happy about the way that the pro abortion groups take the life of the unborn children in such great numbers simply because they are dead set on maintaining the kind of wrong lifestyles that require so many innocent lives to be sacrificed each year. Even though I might accept abortion being done in some rare circumstances before the first trimester of the pregnancy, but in all honesty I don't think that it's right for the people on the Left to be encouraging and supporting late term or partial birth abortion which in my opinion is just plain murder, I believe that if an unborn child is going to have to be executed in such ways it should only be done by a court order that has been approved by a panel of judges and doctors.

I also like the fact that those on the Left seem to be caring more about healthcare and other social services for all people, but I don't agree with those who seem to be mistakenly considering the pursuit of happiness as living a delinquent or a promiscuous and lustful life without respecting any moral or social boundaries. I also believe that people of all gender and gender preferences regardless of whether they consider themselves to be straight or belonging to one of the LGBTQ groups should be free to create a family together and have the right to live as each others lifelong soulmates and companions in a lawfully recognized marriage as long as they adhere to the Universally accepted values and principles that are derived through logic and compassion and that are not enslaved to a lifetime of lust and delinquency and as such I believe that it is the responsibility of the government and the society at large to make sure that such individuals and families are not subjected to undue abuse and discrimination.

Now when it comes to those who are on the Right I respect their dedication to their faith and their support for the law and order, but I am not very happy about the fact that they want to discriminate about certain groups within the society that they don't like and seem to be going out of their way to deprive certain segments of the population of being able to live a decent, happy, and healthy life. I don't like the fact that the kind of racism that is being promoted by the Right doesn't just stop at people not liking each other as it seems to have a direct effect on the quality of life for the many people who find themselves to be the subject of bigotry, hate, and discrimination in their daily lives.

And even though I believe in productive and constructive Capitalism that makes life easier and more convenient for the masses, but I am not very happy with those greedy corporations that are being supported by the Right which want to sacrifice everyone and everything for more profits specially if those big salaries and bonuses that the top executives get come at the cost of taking advantage of the average families and or the Environment. I also am not very happy with having the kind of economical and social inequalities that seem to be the hallmark of slavery and oppression. I believe that the only way that we can justify having a millionaire or billionaire class is if those people use all their financial and social positions and resources to serve the Humanity and help protect the Environment instead of living in excesses and just thinking of themselves.

As you said it's hard to find any angles in this game since everybody seems to be affiliated and aligned with some kind of an ideology or party which is putting everyone at each others throat, but for those who are willing to put politics and their own prejudices aside and sincerely want to help save the Humanity and our Home Planet they can consider me to be an ally and a friend.


PS: I am going to take a break from posting on the forum in order to tend to my health conditions, hope everyone wears a mask and stays safe.


IMO

 

[Cannuck]

Just a thought:

With all the things that are going on right now that are occupying everyone's mind I am worried that the problems with the Environment are going to be neglected at the time that it's of great importance and urgency to take the right actions before this Planet goes past the point of no return.

Before the Pandemic and all these political and racial upheavals came around I felt that we were making some headways in creating awareness amongst the general population as at that time it seemed like the Global Warming and the Environmental issues were the main focal point at the United Nations, but now it seems like they have been pushed to the back burner for the time being.

Although there is currently some talks about reviving the Paris Accord Agreement, but in all honesty the time for having more conferences and giving more speeches has long past and now we have arrived at the point that taking immediate and concrete actions at the large scale is the only thing that can save this Good Old Earth of ours.


GoodOldEarth.com / .org

GoodOleEarth.com/ .org


I recently registered these domains for bringing more attention back to the Environment and our Home Planet, which one you all think is better the one with "Old" or "Ole".

IMO

I agree, the pandemic has been a major distraction, people are more concerned about personal safety at the moment. However, there may be a silver lining to follow: straying from the business as usual model. At least that is my hope.

GoodOldEarth (.org) is better IMO.

When you get set up (together with any concerned domainers), we can exchange backlinks to this webpage:

ProjectBluePlanet.com (under construction)

Cheers

 

[jhm]

@oldtimer I love your passion on such issues

Outside of the Amazon issue, I'd like to see a $10k fine for every piece of litter dropped. See how that works out

 

[oldtimer]

@oldtimer I love your passion on such issues

Outside of the Amazon issue, I'd like to see a $10k fine for every piece of litter dropped. See how that works out

On the surface giving people a fine for littering might sound logical, but even if everyone disposes of their trash properly all that trash is still going to end up in the landfills which is a problem by itself.

The better thing for us all to do is to produce less trash to begin with and that requires that we change some of our habits and lifestyles that contribute to creating so much trash everyday.

Equally important to limiting the amount of trash that each one of us is producing is to also find a way to limit our footprint in the Environment when it comes to how much resources, materials, and energy each one of us is using.

And for that reason I believe that people should not be allowed to build bigger houses than what they actually need to live in or to own too many cars, planes, and yachts no matter how rich and famous they are.

In another words being rich and famous should not automatically give anyone a license to have a bigger footprint when it comes to how much a person owns, consumes, or wastes.

Nevertheless regardless of our financial or social status we ALL need to learn to live a simpler and less wasteful life if we want to see any meaningful improvements in the situation with the Environment. I hope that all the participants in the conference remember that when they go back home because they need to set the right example for everyone else to follow.

IMO

 

[lemonayd]

Nice to see Humanitarian and Global Interests are still on the agenda for many. Does anyone care about the Amazon Rain Forest plight. Simple answer Yes and No!
Whilst Amazon is associated in the mind of most people as the purveyors of low priced goods, we will associate 'The Amazon' with the Online Shopping first of all - for the most part. Maybe the key would be to lobby Amazon into allowing more Amazon Rain Forest based post links to their books and documentaries about the Amazon Rain Forest that they have for sale. Initailly, it would be prudent to ask them what they think after putting together a little blog. With the might that Amazon (shopping) has become, the natural Amazon (the rain forest and the surrounding areas nurtured by it) really could do with some online help from the brand Amazon. No doubt they must already help and donate for what they make from the brand. I'm suggesting reminding them to do a little bit more. I care about the Rainforest. Just never had the understanding of how to do something about promoting the need for the world to take it seriously, without stepping on the toes of a major online Corporation. To my mind, it is this 'fear' of upsetting Amazon (shopping) that holds people back from full-on Social Awareness about the Amazon Rain Forest, not apathy. Best of luck with your endeavours!

 

[oldtimer]

its a shame we only have an avg lifespan of 80 years, we could do so much more for our causes if we lived to be 500 or so. hmmm.

Theoretically all the problems that the Humanity and the Environment are facing can be fixed in one week (at least to the extent that our present technological abilities allows).

Yes, that is if we all regardless of which corner of the Earth that we live in decide to come together and break away from the influence and control of the internal and external forces of the status quo that see it in their interest to keep us enslaved to the outdated philosophies, ideologies, and doctrines of the past that are creating so much needless suffering and hardship for us all around and that require us to be constantly at each other's throats.

As I have repeatedly been saying our only chance to come out of the mess that we are in is for us as the human race to ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence and to enter a new Era of peace and understanding by finding common grounds over the Universal Values and Principles that are derived through Logic and Compassion.

And all that can theoretically happen in one week provided that those supposedly intelligent people who are in the position of leadership and guidance over the rest of the population start getting their act together and start cooperating with one another in ushering in a change away from the animalistic and to some extent evil ways that the World is in right now (considering all the negative things that we see around us in so many different fronts).

(So there are always going to be certain issues that the opposite sides of the spectrum might disagree on and that want to go to different extremes to deal with while at the same time those in the center perhaps prefer to close their eyes on all those problems and pretend that everything is okay.

Seems to me that both the left and the right and even those in the center are failing to save not just the Environment, but the Humanity and the World as a whole.

And that makes me wonder how would a Logical and Compassionate Artificial Intelligence Entity that has General Intelligence and Awareness and that is capable of Independent Thought and Judgment going to deal with all the problems that are facing the World and can we as the Human Race ever be able to think like that by breaking away from the internal and external forces that want to control our mind and body and that want to keep us in a zombie like state of mind by twisting our logic so that we can never see how we are being used by them for their own benefit.

It's no wonder that these forces that have no Compassion have been suppressing Science and true Logic throughout the history and that have been keeping us occupied with their imaginary stories so that we can never be able to see the truth.

For centuries these internal and external forces of the status quo have been controlling our lives through a selected few whom they have been putting in the position of power and influence over us and all through this time have been using us like sheep in every way possible for their own benefit, but now we have come to the end of the road. The only way that we can save ourselves and our Home Planet going forward is to wake up and to no longer submit to the will and wishes of those Forces of the status quo that want to take advantage of us and that have been taking us astray all along.

And for those reasons we constantly have to reevaluate our own mindset, beliefs, ideologies, philosophies, doctrines, loyalties, affiliations, goals, ambitions, and agendas and that of those that we choose to associate with and follow just to make sure that we are all a Force For Good and that our actions are based on Logic and Compassion.)

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

Amazon Rain Forest Nears Dangerous 'Tipping Point'​

The Amazon rainforest is teetering on the precipice of a dangerous tipping point, new research warns. It’s gradually losing its ability to bounce back after disturbances like droughts or other extreme weather events.

With enough time and forest losses, scientists say, large swaths of the Amazon could fall into an unstoppable spiral that would transform them from lush rainforest into grassy savanna.

The global implications would be profound. The loss of the rainforest would cause a large-scale drying across the region. The circulation of the atmosphere could change in response, altering weather patterns around the world.

And the Amazon has the potential to pour some 90 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere as the forest dies off, the equivalent of several years of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions.

“It’s worth reminding ourselves that if it gets to that tipping point and we commit to losing the Amazon rainforest, then we get a significant feedback to global climate change,” said Timothy Lenton, a scientist at the University of Exeter and a co-author of the study, published yesterday in Nature Climate Change.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/amazon-rain-forest-nears-dangerous-tipping-point/

 

[urlurl]

1/5 of the world's oxygen is produced by the rain forest...

 

[oldtimer]

People need to stop electing right wing candidates that don’t care about the environment, that’s the truth. You can’t get serious about the topic with people who don’t even believe there are real issues. In America alone environmental protections have been stripped under trump in favor of business. See recent ruling about mining in Alaska.

I like to think of myself as an impartial and unbiased intellectual who cares about the Humanity and the Environment at large and who puts common sense based on logic and compassion above all political, religious, and racial affiliations and loyalties and as such this is how I see the truth:

I assure you that the Right knows the seriousness of the Environmental issues that this Planet is facing and cares about their children’s future who have to live in this World as much as the Left does. The only problem is that the Right mistakenly thinks that they still have enough time to establish economic superiority for their base before they have to take the drastic measures that are needed to fix the problems with the Environment. The Left also knows that the Economy is as important as the Environment for most of the people in their base, but has chosen to politically weaponize the Environmental issues in order to gain an upper hand in the situation even though when they were able to do something meaningful about the Environmental problems in the past they pulled the breaks in many instances and didn’t take the necessary actions to preempt those problems and allowed most of the Environmental issues to be passed on to the future generations.

Nevertheless the only way out now is for everyone to put the future and wellbeing of this Planet above their immediate interests and agendas before it becomes too late to be able to do anything meaningful about the Environmental issues.
IMO

 

[oldtimer]

People don’t like to get political, the problem is politics play a major part.

What you just posted doesn’t jive with the republicans in power. Republicans are the biggest climate change denying group in the world. A president that called this a Chinese hoax and points to snow falling in the winter as proof there is no warming. We don’t have an intellectual in charge of things right now. Again, nothing has been done under this admin to help the environment, actually the opposite. Windmills give people cancer type of nonsense from trump.

The guy in Brazil, another far right denier.

Why did the Environment get to this point to begin with, it didn’t happen over night, and why wasn’t something meaningful done 50 years ago to preempt all these Environmental issues. The time for pointing fingers and passing on the blame is over as Fires, Glacier melting, and stronger and more destructive storms are only going to get worse day by day. Politics as usual is not going to save this Planet, everyone has to change their attitude (Left, Right, Middle …) if we are going to find a solution to this problem. IMO

 

[oldtimer]

How can you hold Brazil to a different standard, when in fact the US and Europe destroyed, in the past, most of the forest areas they had in the name of our economy?

Fires have been a natural part of the environmental balance for a very long time and although there have been more extensive fires in the past, but what made the Amazon fires different was the fact that this time the Government policies gave a green light to farmers and developers who accelerated their ground clearing activities beyond that of their usual efforts in the past which in turn caused the Amazon to become the focus of Worlds attention.

Also even though forests have been cleared in the US and other places in the past, but what is happening in Amazon is taking place in the 21 Century which people have become much more aware about the environment. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Greta & The Climate Cult
Greta Thunberg recently arrived in New York, after traveling across the Atlantic to make a point about climate change. Over in America people might think Greta is a teenage superstar, but in Sweden she's known as a publicity stunt.

Nothing personal against Greta, I care very much about the climate myself. The theory of global warming isn't entirely without merit, but there are better ways of caring for our earth and climate than sacrificing democracy.

 

[J Sokol]

Great points from Gilsan and old-timer.
One thing that gives me hope is this list of countries that have already made substantial changes while maintaining a decent lifestyle. Knowing they've been successful, the rest of us can apply some of their strategies to our own communities.

 

[offthehandle]