Epik Escrow Review & Questions

[Domains - Wanted]

Sold a domain using Epik Escrow. I'd transferred-in the domain to Epik prior to the transaction, so the sale went through and funds were credited to my Masterbucks account immediately. So far so good.

Next, I initiated withdrawal to PayPal on Sunday, May 28th and received email confirmation and funds were debited from my Masterbucks account instantly. I expected to receive equally instant deposit into my PayPal account or next day at the outside. No joy! It has been 4 days and no money credited to my PayPal.

Don't know if this is an isolated case or maybe I missed some small print somewhere and this is par for the course - a standard delay with payouts by Epik? Has anybody here had any experience selling through Epik and withdrawing funds to PayPal? How long did you wait for the money?

@robepik

 

[Rob Monster]

Update: My withdrawal status is now changed to "Accept".

Congrats on your sale.

- Transaction started on Feb 18
- Wire arrived on Feb 19
- Domain received at Epik on Feb 22
- Funds disbursed to Masterbucks on Feb 22 as immediately usable funds
- Funds redeemed to Pakistan bank on Feb 23
- Account verification completed on Feb 23
- Disbursed via Amex FX to Pakistan on Feb 24 in the very early AM

That timing is actually not horrible. We have been faster. I sincerely doubt anyone else would be faster considering the domain arrived on Monday, and you were paid out the next day!

Now, for context, here is how we approach risk when it comes to disbursement:

- Both the buyer and seller are new to Epik. Buyer from Korea. Seller from Pakistan. Epik has no staff in either of these markets. If there is a legal problem, enforcement will require hiring outside counsel.

- The domain itself has low collateral value. It is impressive that someone paid $26K for it. That is the way it is with brandables. Nice work but if there was a problem later, we would likely never recover $26K.

- You have no other domains at Epik, nor does your buyer. We are delighted to welcome you both at Epik, but again, if there is a problem we have no recourse.

- Ultimately, it was my decision last night to sign off on full disbursement to your bank in Pakistan. Amex FX will handle the rest, and Jessica in our team will be in contact with you.

I suggest next time to be a little patient. Better yet, develop a relationship with some of the Epik staff so that the seller due diligence can be expedited. I had no idea that you were a NP since 2014. Great!

 

[Kuffy]

we believe the buyer might have overpaid for a domain that was about 6 months old.

I'm surprised by this comment, and I hope I have misunderstood it. Does this mean that you will step in and arbitrate if one of your clients sells a name at a better price than your valuation?

 

[korganian]

I have sold lots of domains through Epik. I love how I can have money in my account within one minute of agreeing to a price with the buyer. All I have to do in tell them to go to Epik.com and search for the domain and buy it. They then get an email right away to set up their user name and password to access the domain. I have sold domains this way to buyers all over the world and never had any problems at all.

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks @robepik, there certainly is a lot of fraud in domain sales these days, so being extra precautious only protects everyone involved in the transaction!

Hallelujah. You guys have no idea how bad it has gotten. Do the math. If 1 out of 20 escrow transactions is bad and you charge even 5% escrow, you are upside down on the proceeds alone. Ask anyone who is in this business of clearing transactions and you will find that the business is entirely won or lost on how you manage fraud transactions.

 

[creataweb]

I just sold a name thru Epik and so far & I like the speed and low fee for payout. Since it was my first sale thru there I will assume I have the same hold time (which someone did email me about later on after my payout request.)

I requested a check and am looking forward to doing this more often if it goes smoothly

 

[Rob Monster]

It depends on jurisdiction of the seller. We don't like taxes either but operate within the bounds of the law. So, it just depends on the domicile of the seller. If someone has specific questions, it is best to PM or email me, rather than discuss in a public forum and we'll advise accordingly.

We can also release proceeds in cryptos subject to availability. We are sometimes low on cryptos but later today we'll do a promotion to run through this Friday that will provide customers with a 5% deposit bonus for funding their account in BTC or ETH.

 

[hui2000]

I just purchased one domain todays morning at epik.com using the domain loan service which i tried out applying for last week using my domain/s as collateral. I noticed it was available in my dashboard within a few minutes, am so far happy with the service and looking to transfer 80% of all my names to epik.
thanks @Rob Monster Great service and hustle free

 

[hui2000]

Did you purcahsed a domain while loaning out another domain? Or you got $ in account credit by applying for a loan and than purchased a domain by that account credits?

I first applied for the loan and after approval, used some partition to purchase the domain as the rest for my transfers as am moving most names now to epik

 

[Yousaf Saeed]

Great service and very friendly staff at Epik escrow! It was my first time to trade through epik which is why i was a little nervous but now after the such smooth and fast service by epik; i'm a very big fan of them. Highly recommend epik service.

I'll definitely be recommending epik to my friends and will definitly have more transactions through them.

Once again i will say; very friendly and very responsive staff!

Thankyou Epik!

 

[Yousaf Saeed]

Someone who is engaging in willful fraud is a lot less likely to have a domain portfolio at the place where they perpetrate a fraud. Commitment to a vendor relationship is a "signal". We use it as part of our risk-assessment model as a heuristic indicator of whether to do light or heavy due diligence.

In this case, we looked up the prior owner of the domain and confirmed that the email of the seller matches the email of the historical registrant since 2017. The government ID matches that domain. This does not mean that it could not be identity theft by a relative engaging in clever fraud.

So, at the end of the day, it is a risk assessment that is governed by our published terms of service. We are insured against the big stuff, but $26K is big enough to matter but not big enough to file a claim if we got it wrong. So, at the end of the day, we make a risk assessment and we hope for the best.

Lastly, i completely agree and understand the situation in the office of Epik for handling the transaction as both the buyer and seller were from different countries and Epik had to safeguard not just the buyer and seller; but also themselves from any of the fraudsters and legal consequences. I guess these steps are necessary to safeguards everyone's interests.

I'm a website trader and this is my 4th website sale in the last two years; 3 of them sold via flippa (paid by escrow.com), and this 4th website trade went through for the first time by Epik. So, if i may compare between escrow VS EpikEscrow; then i will definitely choose Epik Escrow from now onwards.

I am very happy with the way their staff treated us; even i was a little worried about Epik in the beginning as i never heard of them before. But now, things have changed. thanks Rob!

 

[Rob Monster]

I'm surprised by this comment, and I hope I have misunderstood it. Does this mean that you will step in and arbitrate if one of your clients sells a name at a better price than your valuation?

In general, we don't render a fairness opinion unless asked. However, my comment here, among us domainer friends, was that a first time seller sold a young domain for more than FMV. As a result, the transaction was being monitored for chargeback. We were able to verify that the buyer is legitimate and processed the withdrawal request. In the meantime, funds were available in the seller's account from the moment the purchase was completed. As for speed of payout, Epik is still among the fastest, particularly for known sellers and/or folks with portfolios at Epik.

 

[DNWon]

In the case of this particular domain, we believe the buyer might have overpaid for a domain that was about 6 months old.

Not "digging" this quote very much either! Anybody who has spent anytime at all, buying and selling domains knows a domains only true value is what someone is willing to pay for it? To come on here and state you feel the buyer may have paid "too much", is truly concerning and demeaning to the seller, your customer. Could you please explain what system of valuation EPIK is currently using that you feel comfortable enough to come to a public forum and publicly state that one of your customers sold a domain for "too high a price"?
Thanks!

 

[Jv1999]

Update: Rob released funds this morning pre-9AM after I emailed him my wallet info! Very generous quote for btc price too! I recommend Epik's escrow! Very awesome :D

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks, that was swift. Since you're in the US (I think?), is it also possible to request for ACH the same way?

Yes, also possible to request ACH.

 

[Rob Monster]

Looks like the money is almost on the way, thanks for the help @ Jessica & Rob

Paper checks are pretty rare these days -- they usually get run once per week unless someone requests a rush. Fine to do them though. The request did go to accounting on 3/12 and would have been processed normally, just not on the weekend.

 

[Rob Monster]

What do you mean by 'no recourse'? For example, if I have domains at epik(50-100-500) and the buyer is doing a chargeback or there are other issues, that will affect in any way my other domains at epik?

Someone who is engaging in willful fraud is a lot less likely to have a domain portfolio at the place where they perpetrate a fraud. Commitment to a vendor relationship is a "signal". We use it as part of our risk-assessment model as a heuristic indicator of whether to do light or heavy due diligence.

In this case, we looked up the prior owner of the domain and confirmed that the email of the seller matches the email of the historical registrant since 2017. The government ID matches that domain. This does not mean that it could not be identity theft by a relative engaging in a clever fraud.

So, at the end of the day, it is a risk assessment that is governed by our published terms of service. We are insured against the big stuff, but $26K is big enough to matter but not big enough to file a claim if we got it wrong. So, at the end of the day, we make a risk assessment and we hope for the best.

 

[blogspotter]

Epik Escrow is the real deal.. I had two transactions both were smooth. I will always use escrow as long as the other party (buyer or seller) agrees.
A1 service

 

[Rob Monster]

Lastly, i completely agree and understand the situation in the office of Epik for handling the transaction as both the buyer and seller were from different countries and Epik had to safeguard not just the buyer and seller; but also themselves from any of the fraudsters and legal consequences. I guess these steps are necessary to safeguards everyone's interests.

I'm a website trader and this is my 4th website sale in the last two years; 3 of them sold via flippa (paid by escrow.com), and this 4th website trade went through for the first time by Epik. So, if i may compare between escrow VS EpikEscrow; then i will definitely choose Epik Escrow from now onwards.

I am very happy with the way their staff treated us; even i was a little worried about Epik in the beginning as i never heard of them before. But now, things have changed. thanks Rob!

There appear to be a lot of folks in Pakistan that are building websites and selling them. Often the websites come with other assets like social media handles. The Epik escrow platform is being adapted to make it easy to keep track of the entire inventory or manifest associated with a domain sale. Incidentally, these website deals can be quite large, valued in millions, for a commercially successful site.

The upgrade looks quite hot. Here is an illustrative example below which shows how other related assets are appended to the domain, e.g. hosting asset, social media asset etc. In this example, it is possible to set up a deal with a so-called Broker spread where the price the buyer pays and the amount the seller gets are separated by an amount of profit for the broker.

 

[ncabete]

I sold a domain and the transaction is via Epik. The funds have been approved by Epik. The buyer asked me to push the domain into his Godaddy account.
However, the Godaddy email is different from his Epik email. What should I do?

Congratulations for your sale!

To provide some background, Escrow generally requires the domain to be transferred into Epik, however in certain occasions where for example the domain is under a 60-day lock and can not be transferred, we're happy to assist with pushes at selected external registrars, however you should never push the domain because the buyer requested you to do so, instead you should contact us so we can set up the arrangement.

If you can PM me the escrow transaction ID, I can pass it along to the appropriate department.

Thanks!

 

[alcy]

Rob approves all withdrawls himself. final frontier step against fraud protection.

maybe he is away.

 

[Rob Monster]

I confirm that the funds were paid out to Paypal after a week's delay.

Thanks for explaining your policy, @robepik. Better late than not at all. Too bad there is no information about this to be found on your site, nor have you given us any notice about any security concerns with this particular transaction. I would have saved you and myself the time and inconvenience and gone with an established intermediary like Escrow.com or Sedo, who pay out within 24 hours.

While I appreciate your reply here on NP and your security concerns, I must say I am disappointed with:

(1) your lack of understanding of what an escrow service entails. Escrow is securing funds and item being paid for and releasing both to respective parties immediately upon transaction conditions being met. Complimentary evaluation of pricing is NOT part of escrow. You need to decide what service you want to offer - whether escrow or domain appraisal - and stick to it!

(2) your fairly limited domain valuation know-how. The transaction price was US$ 1350 for a 4-character .COM (LNLN.com with repeating number). From mine and my partners' "first time seller" 18-year domain sales experience, this is a very satisfactory price, but calling this "above FMV" shows that your domain valuation skills need some more work. I'd stick to your day job for now

Last but not least, we do have a portfolio with Epik, even if it's only a fraction of our entire inventory, including many 10 year+ and even 20 year+ domains. Something you could have easily checked upon, given your valuation concerns, instead of blocking the withdrawal to Paypal - without any notice whatsoever.

Summing up: looks like Epik's escrow service is in early Beta and still needs work. Pricing is very attractive, but you get what you pay for. Speaking of which: it seems there is a minimum withdrawal fee to Paypal of $5 or 5% for smaller amounts. I ordered another $100 withdrawal and promptly received $95 in Paypal.

Will respectfully disagree. Your funds were immediately available. Due to extensive experience with payment fraud, first time payouts can be delayed for folks with little or no other domains with us.

Epik Escrow is not a beta. It is a low margin service to customers. Most folks simply sell through our marketplace, which is self-service and instant, but for folks who want escrow, we do it.

And when we do disburse an escrow transaction, and there is a subsequent fraud problem on the payee side, we eat that loss. Been burned enough time to be vigilant to first-timers.

As for your track record as a domainer, I do wish I knew everyone personally. If they reach out, I get to know them. Those who don't say hello, once they have 100+ domains with us, I tend to notice them.

I do see that your 2nd payment request was disbursed within hours. So, clearly the whitelisting is working as advertised.

Have a good week.

 

[Rob Monster]

Not "digging" this quote very much either! Anybody who has spent anytime at all, buying and selling domains knows a domains only true value is what someone is willing to pay for it? To come on here and state you feel the buyer may have paid "too much", is truly concerning and demeaning to the seller, your customer. Could you please explain what system of valuation EPIK is currently using that you feel comfortable enough to come to a public forum and publicly state that one of your customers sold a domain for "too high a price"?
Thanks!

It was on the high side of fair market value which simply caused the transaction to be flagged for review prior to being paid out. Of course we want domain investors to sell for maximum price, as long as the transactions are legitimate, which in this case it was.

 

[Jv1999]

MY REVIEW OF EPIK ESCROW:

I just actualized a sale with them! They're very good! After putting in the initial request, Rob or one of the brokers will email both you and the buyer within 3 hours!

From there he'll respond within minutes to each email and it was so easy :D.

But one caveat: To speed everything up to blink level, you have to transfer your domain to Epik.

Drawbacks: You have to wait 5 days to withdraw. . . and the 5% withdrawal fee.

But that's all fine because you won't need to upload your ID or give your SSN. They also withdraw straight to PayPal or Bitcoin. It's all really awesome except for the 5 days!

 

[Rob Monster]

MY REVIEW OF EPIK ESCROW:

I just actualized a sale with them! They're very good! After putting in the initial request, Rob or one of the brokers will email both you and the buyer within 3 hours!

From there he'll respond within minutes to each email and it was so easy :D.

But one caveat: To speed everything up to blink level, you have to transfer your domain to Epik.

Drawbacks: You have to wait 5 days to withdraw. . . and the 5% withdrawal fee.

But that's all fine because you won't need to upload your ID or give your SSN. They also withdraw straight to PayPal or Bitcoin. It's all really awesome except for the 5 days!

Congrats on your sale.

To clarify:

1. If the buyer and seller are repeat customers, or known/verified, there is no 5 day delay.

2. If the domain is on Epik at the time of the transaction, proceeds are deposited commission-free and tax-free.