Epik Escrow and Fee Comparison

[Rob Monster]

I lose $42,000 on an escrow.com transaction as pdd.com, help please.

It is hard to believe that we are still talking about this case, but indeed $42K is life-changing money for many people. NetSol was once a mighty registrar. Those days are long-gone and I find it hard to believe that there are NamePros members who still use them, other than for promo domains where they probably hope to not get abused on the way out. However, there are some really old domains on NetSol. Some of us remember paying $70 per year for a .COM back when NetSol had the monopoly. Things changed.

As for this specific case, this is case where any competent escrow agent would have fully insulated the buyer from getting defrauded. There is actually a very major design flaw in how most escrow transactions are conducted in the domain name industry. The typical counterparties are:

Buyer
Seller
Escrow agent
Broker
Registrar

That is a total of up to 5 counterparties, each of why can be declared liable to each other in the course of a transaction. In most cases, there is no purchase and sale agreement, nor a posted Terms of Service governing the relationship with one or more counterparties. It is of course a recipe for chaos in the event that there is a perceived default by one of the counterparties. I have seen cases, including Gab.com, where there was also a Domain Lender with a partially paid off leaae in the mix of a transaction.

At Epik.com, we designed the "escrow" process around the registrar. There is essentially no counterparty risk assuming the buyer uses a bank transfer or major crypto to complete their purchase. For domains registered at Epik, we can even do these escrow transactions without fee. Why? Because there is no risk. The risk comes in when the domain is at another registrar, or where the buyer is using a credit card or PayPal where there is a chargeback risk. In this case there should also be a fee to underwrite that risk.

For anyone not aware, Escrow has become a material business for Epik. The buyer and seller are both contracting with Epik. The seller provides the disbursement instructions, which can be multi-party, e.g. broker, lender and registrant. And for the moment, Epik.com is still the only escrow agent -- which is legally defined as a neutral, trusted 3rd party -- to serve as trusted intermediary. Proceeds from sales can also be held at Epik and spent tax-free on like-for-like domain assets.

More here: https://www.epik.com/services/escrow/

 

[Rob Monster]

ok, Epik has a good system but don't get too exited about it.

this solution exists for at least 10 years. Moniker for instance used to offer a similar service.

the problem is most deals involve different registrars: either the seller or the buyer have their own registrar of choice and in many cases they will not accept a deal without moving the domain to their registrar.

also, Epik's system is not bullet proof. someone steals a domain, sells the domain to someone at Epik and has the domain transfer to him. then he sells it to another buyer keeping all at "Epik's bubble". then the original owner comes to scene reclaiming the domain as stolen...

First of all, we have never lost a customer domain name. We have some of the tightest account security around, e.g. 2FA SMS, MaxLock, IP-Allow, Google Authenticator, WHOIS privacy, are all free.

If a domain name were to go missing, we are a member of the ICANN registrar stakeholder group and are in contact with many of the registrar CEOs and that domain would be locked down and returned pronto.

All that being said, in our case, there is a 60 days transfer lock. The odds of a fraud (e.g. domain theft) being exposed within that time frame is very high.

For customers that have accounts at Epik, and where we know the buyer and seller, Epik does routinely waive the transfer lock. Some transactions are done in less than an hour, including transfer in and out.

In some cases, including this past week with a newly registered .IO domain at Dynadot, we did a mid/high 4-figure BTC escrow transaction and the domain stayed at Dynadot.

So, yes, when it comes to protecting domain assets, it pays to be a domain name industry specialist. And in our case, we can afford to do escrow transactions for free. That is pretty unique.

 

[Rob Monster]

Can you explain why paying more is good? This thread hasn't been addressed yet for some reason. People were going thru the numbers, I haven't seen anybody saying they were wrong, people were looking for clarification. Can you post some numbers up?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-marketplace-commissions-fees-knowledge-thread.1112364/page-2

How about you or Rob putting a straight up comparison in fees. Maybe they are cheaper, again, thread still hasn't been addressed.

0-$5,000
$5,000 - whatever

A comparison of fees, to get it all cleared up.

Sure, happy to recap our fees for NamePros members:

For domains registered at Epik.com

- No minimum escrow fee
- If buyer pays via bank transfer or major crypto: No fee
- If buyer pays via credit card or PayPal: 3 - 5%
- If buyer pays via Domain Swap: No fee

For domains registered elsewhere

- $75 minimum escrow fee for any payment method including domain swap
- If buyer pays via bank transfer: 1.5%
- If buyer pays via major crypto: 2.5%
- If buyer pays via credit card or PayPal: 5%

There are no redemption fees for Namepros members.

A NamePros member could sell a domain name for $1 million and use Epik.com as their escrow agent and pay no fee. They have the option to disburse funds or re-invest their proceeds tax-free.

As should be very apparent, any NamePros member who is not using Epik.com as their primary escrow agent is wasting time and money.

 

[MapleDots]

I think Epik Escrow should be the new model. Unlike standard Escrow providers who provide escrow for a multitude of transactions, Epik is specialized in domain escrow. If you only do one thing you better do it right, so I have a lot of confidence in Epik Escrow.

In all the years I have been doing business I have dealt with certified funds, bank transfers, and my own credit card machine. For the first time ever I am confident enough to trust someone for Escrow. The zero risk by having both parties at one registrar and locking the domain should be an industry standard. Ohh yes, Escrow is not a registrar so in my opinion they are not even competition for Epik.

Congratulations @Rob Monster for finally getting escrow right

 

[Rob Monster]

There was no setup here if that is the question. I saw someone post on this escrow thread today. I don't know this person but I shared my perspective as I sometimes do -- even on weekends and evenings.

Since coming back full-time into the domain industry last Fall, I am pretty sure that I earned a reputation on NamePros for doing pro bono ombudsman work on the regular.

In general, I would like to see the industry move to a more sustainable economic model where it does not just benefit a few fat cats with large portfolios and large cash reserves, but also new guys and small-timers.

 

[korganian]

I completed 3 domain escrow transactions through Epik 3 days ago. I was the buyer. The domains were not even registered at Epik. I just asked Epik to add the transfer costs ($7.49 each) to the purchase price. The transaction was swift and completely FREE for both me and the seller.

I am not aware of any other service that can even be compared to this. It's a thing of beauty in my eyes

 

[Rob Monster]

I hope I'm wrong in this, but if I use Epik for Escrow my funds are being received in Masterbucks. This is $1usd : 1 Masterbuck but the main point is to transfer this out of Masterbucks to my account I have to pay 5% commission.

So basically my fee's as a seller are whatever Escrow fee's incurred through Epik Escrow + 5% cash out fee from Masterbucks to USD.

For the nth time, there is no cashout fee for NamePros members.

You can choose to hold escrow proceeds as tax-free Epik account credit or redeem without fee from Epik.

It is a thing of disruptive beauty. Our core business is REGISTRAR. We happen to also be good at ESCROW but can afford to give pro domain investors free escrow. Why? Because our end-game is to help escrow customers use tax-free proceeds from domain sales to consolidate domains they have elsewhere at Epik. It is elegant, sustainable and win-win.

 

[Rob Monster]

never said you lost a costumer domain... nonetheless, not having lost a domain until now does not mean you will not lose it sometime in the future... you simply cannot guarantee that.
the issue is that neither you or any registrar can protect from a stolen domain been reclaimed by the rightful owner.



what industry specialist? the base of the system is 1) having a registrar and 2) keep the domain in that registrar... you have a good system but to not sell yourself above what your value is.
your free transactions is with client money being stuck with you... the moment the client wants to see their money you will apply your commission. nothing against that but, again, don't sell yourself as the big deal.

You probably missed the memo but we waived redemption fees for NamePros members.

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks.

So for most people, Escrow.com is going to be cheaper, since most don't have their names with Epik. Those that do can have lower prices.

To be clear:
- No minimum escrow fee

Does that mean $0?

Yes, completely free domain escrow for NamePros members where the domain is at Epik and where the buyer uses bank transfer or major crypto. This is essentially a risk-free transaction for Epik.

Well, people now have some very good reason to move to Epik, either (1) proactively, (2) at time of a transaction, or (3) using tax-free proceeds from an escrow exit.

We make money by helping customers consolidate on Epik in the most fee-efficient and tax-efficient way, and when a domain investors sells to a retail customer, we gain a retail customer. It works out.

 

[xynames]

Interesting how a thread about a seller getting ripped off for $42k where the OP disappeared has morphed in his absence into a comparison of escrow.com versus Epik fees

To help - https://www.escrow.com/fee-calculator?newEscrowHeader=b#USD
This is what I see at Escrow.com:
$0 - $5,000 - 3.25% ($10 min.)
$5,000.01-$25,000 - $162.50 + 0.26% of amount over $5000
$25,000.01 + - 0.89% less than 1%

Sure, happy to recap our fees for NamePros members:

For domains registered at Epik.com

- No minimum escrow fee
- If buyer pays via bank transfer or major crypto: No fee
- If buyer pays via credit card or PayPal: 3 - 5%
- If buyer pays via Domain Swap: No fee

For domains registered elsewhere

- $75 minimum escrow fee for any payment method including domain swap
- If buyer pays via bank transfer: 1.5%
- If buyer pays via major crypto: 2.5%
- If buyer pays via credit card or PayPal: 5%

There are no redemption fees for Namepros members.

A NamePros member could sell a domain name for $1 million and use Epik.com as their escrow agent and pay no fee. They have the option to disburse funds or re-invest their proceeds tax-free.

That last statement <<A NamePros member could sell a domain name for $1 million and use Epik.com as their escrow agent and pay no fee.>> is nonsense. Rob loses a little credibility making that statement - the question is not just what fee the seller pays (in all my transactions, buyer pays all escrow fees), but what the over all fees are.

When I sell a domain, I send the buyer to wherever the fees will be lowest. I recently closed a holding (paid over time) sale where the down payment was mid five figures. The buyer was obviously VERY concerned with how much the fees would be, because he was willing to pay for the security of having the domain held by a third party during the transfer period. (The lowest holding domain service was escrow.com (UnDeveloped wanted to do the deal for an absurd 5%).)

Even at a sale for $2000., which is a sweet spot average sales price for many domainers, buyer fees are a factor in the final decision of where/how to pay.

So, saying that "sellers pay no fees" at Epik, is irrelevant, if the over all fees are higher. Well, are they higher?

I will consider for domains NOT registered at Epik, because I have none at Epik.

For a $5000. escrow.com buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $315.
via wire, buyer pays $162.50

For a $5000. epik escrow, buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $250.
via wire, buyer pays $75.

For a $2000. escrow.com buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $126.
via wire, buyer pays $65.

For a $2000. epik escrow, buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $100.
via wire, buyer pays $75. (their minimum).

For a $1000. escrow.com buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $63.
via wire, buyer pays $32.50

For a $1000. epik escrow, buyer pays all fees, if paid via:
credit card or PayPal, buyer pays $75. (their minimum)
via wire, buyer pays $75. (their minimum)

Others may want to come in here and calculate fees for other dollar amounts. As I suspected, there is no free ride, and no one is giving anything away. Which one has lower fees depends on the dollar amount, and you need to calculate it exactly for the amount of your sale to determine which escrow service will offer the lowest fee for that dollar amount.

 

[Rob Monster]

Which is typically....

Credit card is 5%

Paypal is 6.5%.

Which is fine for small lease payments but for larger transactions, most folks will go for wire or crypto. Wire and ACH are free for NP members where the domain is at Epik. Crypto is 2.5%.

 

[Rob Monster]

Does the Epik marketplace support listing domains that are not with Epik? If so, what's the commission?

We will typically bring the domain through Epik registrar as part of transaction assurance. Depending on the jurisdictions, we many not enforce that but it is case by case.

The rate depends on buyer's payment method.

You can start a transaction here to get a quote:

https://escrow.epik.com/

@Tony Blessed will get in touch.

 

[Rob Monster]

so, if I have the domain at Epik, sell it for $1M AND the buyer accepts to keep it there, then I can move my $1M out to my bank and you will take $0 commission right?

and if the client wants to move the domain out of Epik, as it is the case with premium buyers and high ticket sales?

Correct, free. The domain is typically transfer-locked for 60 days but we can waive it and often do.

 

[Namebox]

Thanks Rob for their great escrow services. I used the service twice and very happy that I chose to use Epik escrow.

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks Rob for their great escrow services. I used the service twice and very happy that I chose to use Epik escrow.

We are working on a lot of functionality in the escrow area in terms of software and workflow.

In terms of payment processing, we are particularly excited about the capability for empowering emerging markets. For example, we can pay out to places like Nigeria in an hour and Philippines overnight with no fees and good exchange rate. We see this as being very helpful for a lot of folks who are selling domains but where buyers would want a comfort level that there will be no problems.

 

[Rob Monster]

So, a buyer will pay with echeck and seller will be getting direct deposit once a month for free. Is that correct?

With recurring payments, it works like this:

- Buyer is responsible to have funds on deposit monthly. The grace period is typically 5 days though you can configure the grace period.

- Seller gets funds deposited to their Epik account balance. Seller can redeem to ACH without fee or spend on Epik. Other payment methods are supported and done at cost.

- We have not yet automated direct deposit. Mainly because payment fraud does happen. Over time I expect we will be fully automating disbursement for whitelisted accounts.

For your specific case, as you seem to ask a lot of questions, I suggest just contact our live support or request a phone call to go though all your questions to see if Epik is right for you. Perhaps not.

 

[Rob Monster]

Posting details here will save countless calls to your business. Transparency is essential. Your answers are vague. For instance, you dont tell me that buyer funds go into my account as bingo bucks which will lose value when they are converted into hard cash.

My answers are transparent and complete. In fact, most details are covered here:

https://www.epik.com/services/escrow

Other than the escrow fee itself for covering payment processing, there are no additional redemption fees. For NamePros members whose domains are at Epik, and whose buyers pay via wire, they pay zero fees.

Epik has an excellent escrow product, with competitive fees, fast closing and no-nonsense. We are working to add a dashboard for escrow transactions and automated disbursement for verified customers.

As far as I know, we are still the only escrow platform clearing domain transactions with cryptos, including on weekends as we did earlier today for a mid-5 figure intercontinental transaction that will not be disclosed.

 

[Samer]

You dont mention anything about seller redemption fees for monthly payouts.

Lol. Did you make an acc, just to bash Rob?

No answer he gives you is/will b good enoug for you

 

[karmaco]

Posting details here will save countless calls to your business. Transparency is essential. Your answers are vague. For instance, you dont tell me that buyer funds go into my account as bingo bucks which will lose value when they are converted into hard cash.

So you join the forum and immediately go to an Epik thread and start criticizing? People without an agenda generally don’t attack/troll out the gate and introduce themselves to the community.

 

[Dealtor]

Escrow transaction minimum: $500
Escrow fee ranges from 1.5% - 6.5% depending on the payment method.

Marketplace transaction minimum: No minimum
Marketplace commission: 9% of transaction amount

We accept listing/selling Non-Epik registered names. Domain push is processed for the buyer through Epik escrow accounts at other registrar (majorly tier 1 registrars) during the sale of the domain.

Feel free to ask any further questions.

 

[tonecas]

ok, Epik has a good system but don't get too exited about it.

this solution exists for at least 10 years. Moniker for instance used to offer a similar service.

the problem is most deals involve different registrars: either the seller or the buyer have their own registrar of choice and in many cases they will not accept a deal without moving the domain to their registrar.

also, Epik's system is not bullet proof. someone steals a domain, sells the domain to someone at Epik and has the domain transfer to him. then he sells it to another buyer keeping all at "Epik's bubble". then the original owner comes to scene reclaiming the domain as stolen...

 

[JB Lions]

Thanks.

So for most people, Escrow.com is going to be cheaper, since most don't have their names with Epik. Those that do can have lower prices.

To be clear:
- No minimum escrow fee

Does that mean $0?

--------
@Bob Hawkes I know you're into stats and such. This would be a great article. A straight up comparison of the different Escrow services and fees.

Different price points - fee

Somebody has an offer for $500, $2,500, $15,000, $75,000, $200,000 etc. they can go to your article/chart and see who's the cheapest.

 

[Rob Monster]

Sounds great. But what would be happen when somebody transfer a domain from Network Solutions to Epik and wants to sell this domain directly. He should then have to wait till the transfer lock is over I think. Else he could claim back the domain over Network Solutions. Is that right?

Two scenarios:

1. Transfer the domain to Epik and escrow for free / cheap per above price schedule.

In the case of NetSol with their silly 5 day transfer wait, it can usually be expedited upon request but in the interim, the DNS can be updated and the escrow closes once the domain lands at Epik.

2. Sell it at NetSol per above price schedule.

We do escrow already now with external registrars. We don't prefer it but can do it. The rates are competitive in this scenario.

 

[Rob Monster]

People who doubt that we would do a free escrow transaction don't understand that our core business is domain registrar and hosting.

When you need a document notarized, you could pay a notary public, or you could go to the place where you bank and they will notarize it for free.

Of course there are still many people that pay for WHOIS privacy when privacy is a right, not a privilege. The fact that people pay for it does not mean they should. If it can be free, it will be free.

Folks you've all been had. Escrow is not a business. It's a feature. Plain and simple. If you use Escrow.com you are pissing away money, plain and simple. Deal with it and move on.

 

[tonecas]

please note that taxes are specific to each country. in mine, if i sell i have to book it and i will be tax liable. there is no re-investment way out of it