Epik Escrow and Fee Comparison

[Rob Monster]

I lose $42,000 on an escrow.com transaction as pdd.com, help please.

It is hard to believe that we are still talking about this case, but indeed $42K is life-changing money for many people. NetSol was once a mighty registrar. Those days are long-gone and I find it hard to believe that there are NamePros members who still use them, other than for promo domains where they probably hope to not get abused on the way out. However, there are some really old domains on NetSol. Some of us remember paying $70 per year for a .COM back when NetSol had the monopoly. Things changed.

As for this specific case, this is case where any competent escrow agent would have fully insulated the buyer from getting defrauded. There is actually a very major design flaw in how most escrow transactions are conducted in the domain name industry. The typical counterparties are:

Buyer
Seller
Escrow agent
Broker
Registrar

That is a total of up to 5 counterparties, each of why can be declared liable to each other in the course of a transaction. In most cases, there is no purchase and sale agreement, nor a posted Terms of Service governing the relationship with one or more counterparties. It is of course a recipe for chaos in the event that there is a perceived default by one of the counterparties. I have seen cases, including Gab.com, where there was also a Domain Lender with a partially paid off leaae in the mix of a transaction.

At Epik.com, we designed the "escrow" process around the registrar. There is essentially no counterparty risk assuming the buyer uses a bank transfer or major crypto to complete their purchase. For domains registered at Epik, we can even do these escrow transactions without fee. Why? Because there is no risk. The risk comes in when the domain is at another registrar, or where the buyer is using a credit card or PayPal where there is a chargeback risk. In this case there should also be a fee to underwrite that risk.

For anyone not aware, Escrow has become a material business for Epik. The buyer and seller are both contracting with Epik. The seller provides the disbursement instructions, which can be multi-party, e.g. broker, lender and registrant. And for the moment, Epik.com is still the only escrow agent -- which is legally defined as a neutral, trusted 3rd party -- to serve as trusted intermediary. Proceeds from sales can also be held at Epik and spent tax-free on like-for-like domain assets.

More here: https://www.epik.com/services/escrow/

 

[NameBuyer.com]

We provide registrants with online tools for reporting their year-end activity.

For anyone that does their own taxes, Epik's financial reporting tools are some of the best I've experienced at any registrar. I have a little more than half my domains there, close to 4,000. And they make accounting for that many names a breeze.

You'd be surprised how many major registrars completely ignore usability of their reporting tools. Especially bulk reporting and downloads.

 

[Rob Monster]

You dont mention anything about seller redemption fees for monthly payouts.

Because there are none.

It seems you are looking for some witch, and thinking you might find one behind this rock or that rock. Well, long-time NamePros members will probably tell you that when it comes to Epik, you are wasting your time.

Welcome to the domain industry -- it seems you might be new.

 

[Rob Monster]

I registered over 200 domains back in 1996 with network solutions for $75 each per year. Where was Epik in 1996?

Congratulations for being prescient. If you were able to hold those 1996 domains, there are some folks here who know you already! As for Epik, we were founded in 2009 and became a registrar in 2011. In August 2018, I made Epik my full-time focus and we have seen steep growth across multiple lines of business.

 

[OnlineDomainShop]

I have used epik escrow recently for low xxx$ and service was good and fast. Will use in future too.

 

[Rob Monster]

Rob, I was not asking about the escrow process. I am fine with bringing the domain into Epik after the buyer has clicked "Buy it now." My question is whether Epik allows listing domains on its marketplace if the domain is with another registrar.

Yes, of course. Very much so.

And you can also use our awesome SSL landers for free even for domains registered elsewhere.

Good tutorial here:

 

[Rob Monster]

There was another thread you jumped in, prices were talked about, and you never came back to address it. Maybe if you spent more time workingon the wording on your site, instead of trolling, people wouldn't be so confused.

"The standard escrow fee is 1.5% of transaction amount, with a $75 minimum."

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ep...s-fees-knowledge-thread.1112364/#post-7016980

You never went back to that thread to address it, especially the $75 minimum part.

Epik provides a variety of special pricing programs for NamePros members, including domains at cost, and more favorable escrow terms as explained above, including no $75 minimum. Look for a more detailed announcement soon as part of our new NamePros extended sponsorship which just kicked off on Friday.

 

[carob]

They have the option to disburse funds or re-invest their proceeds tax-free.

Hi Rob

tax-free has been mentioned several times, and I'm not sure I know what it means. Could you clarfiy? For example, is this referring to Sales Tax, VAT or similar?

Presumably it is up to the individual domain owner, as in any other domain transaction, to handle their income tax declarations and liabilities themselves.

 

[Rob Monster]

please note that taxes are specific to each country. in mine, if i sell i have to book it and i will be tax liable. there is no re-investment way out of it

Carefully research your country's laws on like-for-like exchanges. In the US, there is a 1031 like-for-like exchange. Of course if you receive national currency to a bank or PayPal, that is going to be a taxable event if your gains exceed your losses. However, very simply described, if you harvest potatoes and re-plant some of them to grow more potatoes rather than sell them, it is a non-taxable event until you sell your harvest at the market and receive national currency.

 

[xynames]

All that is our problem. Technically receiving "Disneyland Epik dollars" if they are something of value is just as taxable an event as receiving ACH to bank. And if we spend the ACH on renewal fees that is deductible too as an expense or cost against income.

Anyway all I am asking is, does Epik withhold funds for tax on outgoing ACH. I would think not but just asking.

 

[3sixty]

For the nth time, there is no cashout fee for NamePros members.

You can choose to hold escrow proceeds as tax-free Epik account credit or redeem without fee from Epik.

It is a thing of disruptive beauty. Our core business is REGISTRAR. We happen to also be good at ESCROW but can afford to give pro domain investors free escrow. Why? Because our end-game is to help escrow customers use tax-free proceeds from domain sales to consolidate domains they have elsewhere at Epik. It is elegant, sustainable and win-win.

Was not aware of this. Will make you aware of our Epik account for future payouts.

 

[MapleDots]

Epik is making a lot of concessions for namepros members but unfortunately they are being put under the microscope of some of namepros more analytical members. I have found that some of theses members to be quite vocal but in the end they are more than willing to help another domainer if one requires it.

So it's Rob's turn to be put under the microscope, he is responding to all questions and clearly laying out the rules of Epik Escrow. As trust builds for this new service I think we will have a winner on our hands.

I don't see a problem with asking the purchaser to open an Epik account.

Personally I think having a prepared statement (link) by Epik showing why Escrow for Domains is the most secure when done by a registrar would be ideal. This way you give the link to the client and the client sees all the benefits of Epik Escrow and I can go on processing the deal without worrying about having to explain the entire process to the client.

It will be interesting to see actual cases posted by members to gauge the feedback.

PS. I cannot comment on tax issues outside of my home country and this is not part of my comment.

 

[jberryhill]

In the US, there is a 1031 like-for-like exchange.

Yes, there is a section 1031 of the IRS code.

No, it does not apply to domain names under any stretch of the imagination.

Please stop telling people that they can apply IRS section 1031 to domain name transactions. It is not true.

https://www.accountingweb.com/tax/individuals/tax-code-eliminates-personal-property-exchanges

Tax Code Eliminates Personal Property Exchanges

May 22nd 2018

The Tax Cuts & Jobs Act (TCJA) contains a number of significant changes which will have an impact on businesses, individuals and families. Prominent among these changes is the elimination of Section 1031 tax-deferred exchanges involving personal property.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/like-kind-exchanges-real-estate-tax-tips

Under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, Section 1031 now applies only to exchanges of real property and not to exchanges of personal or intangible property. An exchange of real property held primarily for sale still does not qualify as a like-kind exchange. A transition rule in the new law provides that Section 1031 applies to a qualifying exchange of personal or intangible property if the taxpayer disposed of the exchanged property on or before December 31, 2017, or received replacement property on or before that date.

Thus, effective January 1, 2018, exchanges of machinery, equipment, vehicles, artwork, collectibles, patents and other intellectual property and intangible business assets generally do not qualify for non-recognition of gain or loss as like-kind exchanges.

 

[Rob Monster]

What about extended payments. I have a potential deal involving 36 payments.

We treat those as domain leases and financings. Typically the buyer here will fund via credit card or PayPal. If they are funding via ACH/eCheck, it could be done at as little as 1% assuming the domain is at Epik due to the monthly payments and related transaction support. We charge the fee as it is collected, not up front.

 

[Samer]

You say you’re taking your business elsewhere, but never saw u were interested...most CEO, never gave half this transparency, or even time! It’s admirable.
Some ppl worth supporting, yet u keep coming after..

i wont be calling anyone... already won my business.

 

[ndeekay121]

Hello Sir,

How do I delete a domain I bought today from your site. I don't want a refund but want to use the money and buy another domain in your registrar. Please how do I do it Sir? I want to do it asap!

 

[cillx]

A NamePros member could sell a domain name for $1 million and use Epik.com as their escrow agent and pay no fee. They have the option to disburse funds or re-invest their proceeds tax-free.

.

Hi @Rob Monster ,

Is this promotion still valid?

Some buyers don't want to expose their true identity to sellers. Can buyers stay nameless on Epik escrow (i see we need only the emails of buyer and seller to initiate the escrow)?

Does Epik issue masterbucks for escrow funds?

 

[Rob Monster]

Hi @Rob Monster ,

Is this promotion still valid?

Some buyers don't want to expose their true identity to sellers. Can buyers stay nameless on Epik escrow (i see we need only the emails of buyer and seller to initiate the escrow)?

Does Epik issue masterbucks for escrow funds?

Sure, we still do those deals for domains that are on Epik and where buyer funds via wire transfer.

The proceeds are disbursed to fully redeemable Masterbucks.com. It works like a champ. Your Epik login works on both sites -- it is single sign-on across nearly all Epik propertiies.

We can now also do large crypto transactions following recent acquisition of Amplify.io -- an Ireland domiciled crypto exchange.

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster Can buyer and seller see each other's details like real names etc when performing escrow transaction?

Can be done openly or privately. We can do either.

 

[Yousaf Saeed]

Once again completed US$10.5k domain/site Escrow Transaction SWIFTY through Epik Escrow. Seller, buyer, and broker all three were able to see details of transaction; very transparent experience.
Very responsive customer support, lower on fee side, and super easy to use. Withdrawl in process. Thankyou Epik!

 

[tonecas]

First of all, we have never lost a customer domain name. We have some of the tightest account security around, e.g. 2FA SMS, MaxLock, IP-Allow, Google Authenticator, WHOIS privacy, are all free.

never said you lost a costumer domain... nonetheless, not having lost a domain until now does not mean you will not lose it sometime in the future... you simply cannot guarantee that.
the issue is that neither you or any registrar can protect from a stolen domain been reclaimed by the rightful owner.

So, yes, when it comes to protecting domain assets, it pays to be a domain name industry specialist. And in our case, we can afford to do escrow transactions for free. That is pretty unique.

what industry specialist? the base of the system is 1) having a registrar and 2) keep the domain in that registrar... you have a good system but to not sell yourself above what your value is.
your free transactions is with client money being stuck with you... the moment the client wants to see their money you will apply your commission. nothing against that but, again, don't sell yourself as the big deal.

 

[JB Lions]

I think Epik Escrow should be the new model. Unlike standard Escrow providers who provide escrow for a multitude of transactions, Epik is specialized in domain escrow. If you only do one thing you better do it right, so I have a lot of confidence in Epik Escrow.

In all the years I have been doing business I have dealt with certified funds, bank transfers, and my own credit card machine. For the first time ever I am confident enough to trust someone for Escrow. The zero risk by having both parties at one registrar and locking the domain should be an industry standard. Ohh yes, Escrow is not a registrar so in my opinion they are not even competition for Epik.

Congratulations @Rob Monster for finally getting escrow right

Can you explain why paying more is good? This thread hasn't been addressed yet for some reason. People were going thru the numbers, I haven't seen anybody saying they were wrong, people were looking for clarification. Can you post some numbers up?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-marketplace-commissions-fees-knowledge-thread.1112364/page-2

How about you or Rob putting a straight up comparison in fees. Maybe they are cheaper, again, thread still hasn't been addressed.

0-$5,000
$5,000 - whatever

A comparison of fees, to get it all cleared up. Epik vs. Escrow.com at least. Add in other Escrow companies that people use.

To help - https://www.escrow.com/fee-calculator?newEscrowHeader=b#USD

This is what I see at Escrow.com:
$0 - $5,000 - 3.25% ($10 min.)
$5,000.01-$25,000 - $162.50 + 0.26% of amount over $5000
$25,000.01 + - 0.89% less than 1%

 

[tonecas]

Yes, completely free domain escrow for NamePros members where the domain is at Epik and where the buyer uses bank transfer or major crypto. This is essentially a risk-free transaction for Epik.

Well, people now have some very good reason to move to Epik, either (1) proactively, (2) at time of a transaction, or (3) using tax-free proceeds from an escrow exit.

so, if I have the domain at Epik, sell it for $1M AND the buyer accepts to keep it there, then I can move my $1M out to my bank and you will take $0 commission right?

and if the client wants to move the domain out of Epik, as it is the case with premium buyers and high ticket sales?

 

[Daehler Ralph]

Correct, free. The domain is typically transfer-locked for 60 days but we can waive it and often do.

Sounds great. But what would be happen when somebody transfer a domain from Network Solutions to Epik and wants to sell this domain directly. He should then have to wait till the transfer lock is over I think. Else he could claim back the domain over Network Solutions. Is that right?

 

[xynames]

Let me get this straight though.

For NamePros members (where seller is a NP member):
For domains held (registered) at Epik, there are no fees charged to either buyer or seller for escrows? Not for the escrow not for the incoming via ACH or outgoing via ACH funds?

Is that what Rob/Epik is saying?

Please clarify also what is meant by “domains held at Epik.” Does it mean simply that the seller holds the domain at Epik? and then transfers it to buyer at whatever registrar of buyer’s choice? Or is there an additional requirement that the domain is transferred to buyer at Epik (remains at Epik)?

 

[Rob Monster]

Let me get this straight though.

For domains held (registered) at Epik, there are no fees charged to either buyer or seller for escrows? Not for the escrow not for the incoming via ACH or outgoing via ACH funds?

Is that what Rob/Epik is saying?

Please clarify also what is meant by “domains held at Epik.” Does it mean simply that the seller holds the domain at Epik? and then transfers it to buyer at whatever registrar of buyer’s choice? Or is there an additional requirement that the domain is transferred to buyer at Epik (remains at Epik)?

Yes, ACH is free in and out for escrow where domain is at Epik, regardless of whether the domain stays at Epik post transaction. There is no long-term requirement to hold the domain at Epik.

The domain would be held at Epik for up to 60 days. However, that requirement is typically waived immediately if customer pays via bank deposit or crypto (i.e. no chargeback risk).

For more info, just go here: https://www.epik.com/services/escrow/ or send a PM in order to keep this thread from drifting off topic.