Giant Shill Bidding Operation at NameJet Exposed

[Addison]

Beware of domain name auction bids at exactly the reserve price at Namejet

I was going through the Namejet domain name auctions when I spotted the domain name che.biz.

I checked the auction again today and “grandcru” has increased the bid to $18,800 and of course once again had not hit the reserve.

it is either the seller or a friend of the seller that is creating hype about the auction and also making bids close to the reserve so that some legit bidder gets tricked and makes a bid that will hit the reserve.

Here is another auction from last month with “grandcru” bidding just below the reserve for the domain name bakery.biz

I came across a tweet yesterday by Raymond that said that auto.co had a $75k bid at Namejet. So I went to the auction and guess what? It was “grandcru” once again bidding at the lower end of the reserve. “grandcru” made a $75,001 bid while the second highest bid was just $2,000.

I checked with Whoisology to make sure and I found that last month che.biz had the same registrant name as auto.co and bakery.biz.

I just noticed that che.biz is marketed by Namejet. If I was Namejet I would be very careful what auctions I promote.

 

[wwwweb]

Yeah maybe, they profit, why not keep quiet....





That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

Or look the other way, that is why it is strange a blog exposed this, when they start it in the face everyday.

Inadvertently they are in a conflict position when they profit from such actions. I have no idea if this person has engaged others into bidding wars with the hopes of pushing the price up for his friend. Will namejet go back, and check, and refund these bidders who were pushed up? I doubt it, they will not even discuss it openly.

 

[Wannabean]

That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

Not really shilling. They were just bidding up to the reserve range. It just meant that the next bid would actually win the name. As opposed to bidders dueling it out whilst not really realising they were miles away from the reserve and wasting their time. Perhaps a better way would be to have starting bids but then again not as much interest is generated if the initial price is high...

Personally I don't much care for this sort of thing but I don't think it's shilling.

 

[Wannabean]

Will namejet go back, and check, and refund these bidders who were pushed up?

We should probably get the facts straight. The title of this thread and the op is going to get people excited and muddy the waters here. No one has been pushed up. These aren't cases where the buyer (if indeed any of these sales completed) could have got the name cheaper because the reserve wouldn't have been met so the name wouldn't have sold. It's definitely not shill bidding and there couldn't be any refunds because lower bids wouldn't have triggered a sale.

Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the practice but it's not shill bidding, which is a far worse problem imo and needs to be rooted out.

Really need to change the thread title here.

 

[Asfas1000]

Not really shilling. They were just bidding up to the reserve range. It just meant that the next bid would actually win the name. As opposed to bidders dueling it out whilst not really realising they were miles away from the reserve and wasting their time. Perhaps a better way would be to have starting bids but then again not as much interest is generated if the initial price is high...

Personally I don't much care for this sort of thing but I don't think it's shilling.

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

 

[wwwweb]

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

It worked like this the top bidder was namereserve, and anytime you bid if you did not hit the reserve namereserve would still be the top bidder, once the reserve was met, namereserve would no longer be the top bidder, and your username would show high bidder.

It confused many at first as the username actually represented the reserve, until it was met, then it fell to the bottom of the list.

 

[Wannabean]

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

1. It's the seller who sets the reserve and the namejet alias would simply bid up to but wouldn't trigger the reserve amount. So what your asking could never happen.

2. It was common knowledge and the alias (thanks to @wwwweb) was namereserve so it was pretty obvious.

I haven't seen the handle for a while but the same thing could still be happening under a different alias (maybe the one the op is referring to?)- I'm not sure. Maybe someone from namejet could help out with this.

The important thing to note right now in this thread, is whilst this might be frowned upon, it's in no way shape or form shill bidding.

 

[Asfas1000]

Thanks both, I retract saying it was "in-house shill bidding".

 

[Addison]

The important thing to note right now in this thread, is whilst this might be frowned upon, it's in no way shape or form shill bidding.

Are you kidding me?

Just because this doesn't match your ill-conceived notion of shill bidding does not mean that it is not shill bidding. Contrary to what you believe, it with all certainty is shill bidding.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Don't get me started.

 

[Wannabean]

Are you kidding me?

Just because this doesn't match your ill-conceived notion of shill bidding does not mean that it is not shill bidding. Contrary to what you believe, it with all certainty is shill bidding.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Don't get me started.

I think I've explained perfectly clearly how it isn't at all. There's not much more I can add. Your wrong and your throwing grand accusations around but only presenting a tiny bit of circumstantial evidence that wouldn't even prove what you claim it does if it was verifiable. If thats too complicated for you, you can always just restate your position using capital letters to make your point instead of rationale.

 

[campout]

Assuming it's true, I definitely think shill bidding is the correct term here.

 

[Wannabean]

Assuming it's true, I definitely think shill bidding is the correct term here.

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

Shill bidding is where the genuine bidder could have got the name for much cheaper if they hadn't been bid up by the illegitimate party. This is absolutely not happening here.

 

[Addison]

If thats too complicated for you, you can always just restate your position using capital letters to make your point instead of rationale.

Seriously? How many credible sites do I need to reference before you realize that you're flat out wrong.

Wikipedia wasn't enough?

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids

What does eBay, a billion-dollar online auction website, have to say?

Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability

Do you need more references? These are established and accepted definitions.

Read a book.

 

[campout]

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

They're designed to manipulate other potential bidders into thinking there is more demand for the name than really exists, which is why this tactic is employed in the first place, no? It's hugely dishonest.

 

[Wannabean]

Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids

It's not driving the price up!!!!!!! The reserve is the reserve. There's no cheaper price to pay....

How else can I say it? This isn't shill bidding but imo is still a dubious and misleading practice.

You get a clue

 

[Wannabean]

They're designed to manipulate other potential bidders into thinking there is more demand for the name than really exists, which is why this tactic is employed in the first place, no? It's hugely dishonest.

I absolutely agree. But it's still not shill bidding.

 

[Addison]

It's not driving the price up!!!!!!! The reserve is the reserve. There's no cheaper price to pay....

How else can I say it? This isn't shill bidding but imo is still a dubious and misleading practice.

You get a clue

You're delusional. The definition is black and white.

 

[Addison]

But it's still not shill bidding.

Do you understand what "or" means?

Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability

If you won't read a book, at least read this: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

 

[wwwweb]

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

Shill bidding is where the genuine bidder could have got the name for much cheaper if they hadn't been bid up by the illegitimate party. This is absolutely not happening here.

Even if the bid is below the reserve, it sets a precedent abcdomain.com for a $75,000 bid at namejet, if that person is not planting bids, good chance the next time they list they will list at a lower price point.

A fake bid whether it is activated into a live bid, or not is manipulation, as if this party has colluled or has no intention to buy the domain, they have no business bidding.

Having a frivolous bidder loose in the marketplace is not good for anyone.

The fact they can advertise that their domain got a $75k bid at namejet is fraud alone, as they planted that fake bid.

In legal terms what this person did constitutes fraud in most North American jurisdictions.

Others might think namejet is like some kind of arcade game, but when you are dealing in real money, and placing bids on your own domains, read up on laws, when it comes to eBay cases and shill bidding, it is a real crime.

 

[wwwweb]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...0/apr/20/ebay-seller-convicted-auction-fixing


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2001/03/...-with-fraud-in-1100-art-auctions-on-ebay.html

Shill bidding comes under the fraud act in the USA, I am not sure about other countries, but namejet needs to take action.

 

[Wannabean]

Basically what we're saying here is the type of person who might get hurt by this is someone who picks the names they bid on based on the number of other bidders. Which is a ridiculous strategy, if you can even call it that. Who are the other victims? I dont get it.

Oh and for full disclosure... I don't list names with reserves on namejet and certainly wouldn't have someone bid them up to the reserve for me if i did.

But huge shill bidding ring? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Wannabean]

if that person is not planting bids, good chance the next time they list they will list at a lower price point

This I hadn't considered and is a very fair point but giant shill bidding operation it still isn't imo...

 

[Wannabean]

Do you understand what "or" means?

Of course!

But desirability would have to somehow be correlated to the number of bids/bidders which for me it wouldn't be.

 

[.NJ]

Lets talk about the "real" conspiracy in the domain world.

Godaddy expired auctions....

That makes shill bidding look like romper room.

 

[Addison]

Basically what we're saying here is the type of person who might get hurt by this is someone who picks the names they bid on based on the number of other bidders. Which is a ridiculous strategy, if you can even call it that.

People are influenced by assorted factors when making financial decisions. That doesn't mean "the type of person who might get hurt by this" deserves it. That's a diabolical way of looking at it.

This I hadn't considered and is a very fair point but giant shill bidding operation it still isn't imo...

If you realize it's a shill bidding operation, then we can agree that "giant" is subjective. Truce?

I used the word giant because of its continuance over time, the egregiousness of the person doing it, the lack of acknowledgement by NameJet, and the enormity/boldness of those shill bids. That makes it giant, IMO.

 

[Wannabean]

if that person is not planting bids, good chance the next time they list they will list at a lower price point.

Actually now I've thought about this some more....

The seller, assuming they have planted bids or are able to recognise planted bids, still knows the real price point for the domain, so actually it's likely their future relisting decisions will not be impacted by the inflated sub reserve bids.

I still can't see who the victims are for sub reserve phantom bids....just pay what you think the name is worth and you don't have to worry about this. Hopefully your not using previous number of bids or bid amounts as a metric in that process. If you actually are....then you have more to worry about than sub reserve phantom bids imo.

In my eyes this is very different to shill bidding, which really does effect everyone. Anyway, I've more than said my piece so will leave this thread alone for others to contribute to. All the best to everyone who does, no hard feelings.