alert DAN.COM cancel the deal and not transfer domain after BIN payment

[enamebroker]

I bought one domain by BIN via DAN.COM and waited for domain transfer. And DAN cancelled this transaction and said the domain is not owned by the reseller. I can't believe it. How to deal with this matter? See attached photo.

 

[numenta]

Dan.com doesn't work anymore.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

do u seriously think they would not all implement it if it was easy to do. for every problem like this for buyer and seller they have to waste time too.

Do I think they would not implement it if it was easy to do? Short answer, yes.

I have been around the block of life enough times to have seen some very stupid things never get fixed. They remain broken for years and years until it becomes someone else's problem. The problem keeps getting kicked that can down the road. I dont think it matters if it were easy or hard to implement. The question is, does anyone really want to give time to this issue? I guess its a matter of their business agenda...

 

[biggie]

Interesting point

Hi

the point was that, the amount is not a substantial loss, as stated.

it was preventable, and in the scheme of things, such amounts are either forgotten over the lifetime of a domainer or the cost is expensed as a learning experience.

just saying...

imo...

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Hi

the point was that, the amount is not a substantial loss, as stated.

it was preventable, and in the scheme of things, such amounts are either forgotten over the lifetime of a domainer or the cost is expensed as a learning experience.

Do you think that Dan and/or the would-be seller should reimburse for these added expenses in such circumstances?
Regardless of the amount, if the would-be buyer was acting in good faith, and had advanced the funds, is it right for them to suffer any loss?

 

[karmaco]

Do you think that Dan and/or the would-be seller should reimburse for these added expenses in such circumstances?
Regardless of the amount, if the would-be buyer was acting in good faith, and had advanced the funds, is it right for them to suffer any loss?

The charges are from their country’s bank not from DAN or the would be seller. Take it up with the bank.

Maybe next time they should do their homework and verify beforehand before hitting BIN on any domain anywhere they find via an internal search. There are many outdated listings everywhere.

 

[Jv1999]

The charges are from their country’s bank not from DAN or the would be seller. Take it up with the bank.

Maybe next time they should do their homework and verify beforehand before hitting BIN on any domain anywhere they find via an internal search. There are many outdated listings everywhere.

So... you turned into the Grinch of NP since I've been gone I see

 

[bilirkishi]

You are absolutely right.

I too have made mistakes in the past, and later learned to check at least the following six things while buying a name:

1. Whois info.
2. Where the landing page leads to.
3. Spam status of the name.
4. Malware status of the name.
5. Direct Trademark violation.
6. Is any marketplace selling the same name at a lower price?

Perhaps there are more. But these are the bare minimum IMHO.

Happy domaining
Fayaz.

Most of us still doesnt know 5. procedure...

 

[enamebroker]

If i can do everything, the platform is useless.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

The charges are from their country’s bank not from DAN or the would be seller. Take it up with the bank.

Maybe next time they should do their homework and verify beforehand before hitting BIN on any domain anywhere they find via an internal search. There are many outdated listings everywhere.

So... you turned into the Grinch of NP since I've been gone I see

The interesting point here is who is to blame for having the added costs to the would-be seller? Clearly, it's not the bank's fault...they appropriately processed what was deemed a legitimate sale at this marketplace. And it's not clear that even if the would-be buyer checked all of the other marketplaces and did other research, that they would have uncovered the fact that the listing was fake.

So, our original poster's only fault was trusting that a marketplace's listings were legitimate. Should he be financially penalized for that?

Even the "grinch" had its change of heart in the end, and redeemed himself. Hopefully Dan will, either directly or through the would-be seller, reimburse this unfortunate individual for his financial losses.

 

[karmaco]

So... you turned into the Grinch of NP since I've been gone I see

If expecting people to admit they should do their basic homework on a domain before hitting BIN on an internal search is being a Grinch then yes. People who can’t even admit their mistakes in a matter and prefer to whine and blame others are children not domainers. The sense of entitlement is why they will not succeed.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

If expecting people to admit they should do their basic homework on a domain before hitting BIN on an internal search is being a Grinch then yes. People who can’t even admit their mistakes in a matter and prefer to whine and blame others are children not domainers. The sense of entitlement is why they will not succeed.

Well, when I first joined DAN, I had no clue that they had a problem with many unregistered domains and recurrent fake listings. Never did I even think that I would have to be doing all the wise steps that you mention, to try to verify that a domain listing was actually legit.

What if this original poster is guilty of trusting a website, and proceeding based on it's reputation without doing any checking? Is he a fool? Does the OP deserve to take the financial hit for not being as savvy as you are? For believing that DAN and its seller are trustworthy and only have legitimate listings?

Your point is well taken, that one needs to be vigilant on the marketplaces. As for the financial hit, at a minimum perhaps the OP should be reimbursed for this initial mishap? In the future, using DAN again, more than likely the OP will verify the listing directly through DAN first, before hitting the buy button.

 

[enamebroker]

So I like to trade with the buyer\reseller in NP and communicate directly and closely.

 

[biggie]

Well, when I first joined DAN, I had no clue that they had a problem with many unregistered domains and recurrent fake listings. Never did I even think that I would have to be doing all the wise steps that you mention, to try to verify that a domain listing was actually legit.

Hi

question:

if you are buying a domain from another person, not on marketplace... would you do whois check to verify that person was legit owner, first?

if so, then why make an assumption that the domain is legit listing, when you don't know who the seller is...on a marketplace, especially if you just joined?

imo...

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Hi

question:

if you are buying a domain from another person, not on marketplace... would you do whois check to verify that person was legit owner, first?

Yes, I would.

if so, then why make an assumption that the domain is legit listing, when you don't know who the seller is...on a marketplace, especially if you just joined?

Well, the assumption would be that a large marketplace would have the resources to check the legitimacy up front, before allowing a listing. They do "verify" a seller, by requiring that there have been at least five successful transactions previously. Unfortunately, in some cases, this may create more trust in a seller upfront than is warranted.

Your point is well taken. For myself, I now realize that it is best not to make an assumption of the legitimacy of a listing in any domain marketplace. There is a wisdom to checking the domain out first using other independent venues.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I agree there should be verification for all initial listings.

And there should be regular check and if a name has transferred registrars or expired the listing should need to be reactivated.

Dan should require their verification on all listings. It does work well.

Afternic should add initial verification, in my opinion. They say in another thread it is the highest priority addition and coming soon.

The Afternic way of checking for registrar changes should be used by Dan and something similar instituted at Sedo.

One advantage of verification is it not only freezes out bad actors listing names they don't own, and careless owners leaving up names they used to own, but it also detects errors in listings. More than once I had an error in submitting a name at Sedo, and it did not verify of course. Without verification, the incorrect name could get listed on the marketplace.

It is important that verification apply to all, and no exemptions for the big outfits.

But currently, if want to be absolutely sure of getting a name, the registrar marketplace, if it is listed there, is the best option. I have a couple of times had people ignore the lander marketplace and go seek it out on a registrar marketplace where it was already listed. There the transfer is automatic and generally immediate (after funds confirmation).

Sorry this happened to OP, but this does happen regularly at various marketplaces.

Every time a sale fails, it is bad for the domain industry overall.

-Bob

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Thanks for your thorough response, Bob. Verification clearly is needed not just at the time of listing, but ongoing with the marketplaces.

Let's see what the great announcement is shortly from Afternic. Hopefully this addresses both issues.

But currently, if want to be absolutely sure of getting a name, the registrar marketplace, if it is listed there, is the best option. I have a couple of times had people ignore the lander marketplace and go seek it out on a registrar marketplace where it was already listed. There the transfer is automatic and generally immediate (after funds confirmation).

That's an important point. One would wonder if using the registrars to initiate any other marketplace listing would make sense. In other words, right now the registrar marketplaces appear very reliable. They seem to make certain that the seller is legit AND that the listing expires when the registration expires.

If listings to the external marketplaces were directly done through the registrars, might that solve the problem? I'm not talking about FT or MLS, as much as the initial listings on marketplaces like Sedo or Afternic for even a non-premium network sale?

That way, perhaps our opening poster would not have to worry about this issue again?!

 

[biggie]

I agree there should be verification for all initial listings.

Hi

majority of big 3 already have verification process for "initial listings"
the problem, if any, is maintaining and updating that inventory of domains.

i know that sedo makes attempt to update, because they'll remove my dropped domains, sometimes before i do.
on other hand, before afternic beta, i had hard time getting some names listed.


imo...

Every time a sale fails, it is bad for the domain industry overall.

Hi

i don't see it that way
there are many reasons why a "potential sale" may fail, which may not be fault of platform.

sales fail in housing, automotive, manufacturing etc. but that's all part of the "likelihood of success" percentages or probabilities.

when there are no sales, across all industries....then houston, we have a problem.

imo...

If listings to the external marketplaces were directly done through the registrars, might that solve the problem?

Hi

i'd say, no,
because once added to platform, the maintenance still has to be done after.

imo...

 

[Bob Hawkes]

majority of big 3 already have verification process for "initial listings"

I may misunderstand what you mean by this, but it does not seem to me that all 3 currently have verification processes for initial listings.

Yes, agree Sedo definitely have initial listing verification. (But their big trusted sellers can submit directly, I think, without verification?)

Dan have required verification, but only if opted in or if the name is already listed on their marketplace.

Afternic, while requiring verification for FT enabled names, but for any other names there is no verification currently. For example if I want to list Example.ca, unless it is already in their system, there is no check beyond that someone has it registered. No step to see if it is me who owns it. I don't need to do TXT verification or some other method. There are certainly many incorrect listings on Afternic - my portfolio is not that large, and I probably need contact them about more than 50 domains per year that are incorrectly listed. Many of these are just domainers not bothering to take down listings or overlooking it. But there does seem to be some deliberate misuse of the system. I am glad Afternic are going to adopt verification for new listings, and hopefully comprehensively and soon.

You are absolutely right that initial verification does not solve the problem, however, unless there are also checks in place for taking down names no longer owned. This is the problem that resulted in this thread.

While all of Sedo, Afternic and Dan make some efforts in this regard, it is challenging to do without becoming very onerous for domain investors. Definitely Afternic of late seem very prompt to put into review status domains that have expired or transferred. Dan seem to check less frequently but do check (they informed me of a few I had overlooked). I am glad to hear Sedo are also doing this (I have not personally got notice from them).

I think a matter of opinion whether bad for industry. Maybe not a big deal, but what I meant was that each time a deal falls through, if the buyer leaves a negative review for the marketplace, that harms trust in marketplace by other potential buyers. That is what I meant by my comment. The big marketplaces must know what fraction of sales fail, but I presume can't be enticed to share data. Would be interesting to know.

-Bob

 

[Joe drake]

Its not rocket science to require verification for listing domains on marketplaces. I do not know why in 2023 we're still having this issue. It gives the industry a black eye.

its a real joke its like buying a stock and it runs up and your brokerage calls you and says the seller changed his mind ,but we will scold him. This happens constantly with godaddy ,it shows that this industry in a joke. Ant the technology is stone age ,how can godaddy/afternic deny me listing a domain I hand regged 2 min ago ,What a ----ing joke; And the workers all sound good but no common sense whatsoever ...I hate to say this but they have some real morons that work there now

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

its a real joke its like buying a stock and it runs up and your brokerage calls you and says the seller changed his mind ,but we will scold him. This happens constantly with godaddy ,it shows that this industry in a joke. Ant the technology is stone age ,how can godaddy/afternic deny me listing a domain I hand regged 2 min ago ,What a ----ing joke; And the workers all sound good but no common sense whatsoever ...I hate to say this but they have some real morons that work there now

There appears also to be the notion that it's ok to simply say effectively that a "fix is in the works." If there is no immediate plan for correction, that speaks volumes as to the lack of commitment to correcting this problem.

Do you really think that the problem is morons at the company, or a crisis of effective leadership and need for greater integrity?

The question right now, though, to @enamebroker, is whether the reimbursement will happen. A company with integrity would ideally rectify this situation for the would-be buyers that have been financially impacted by this ongoing issue.

 

[enamebroker]

I have no financial impact on this purchasement. However, I spent a lot of time in searching the BIN domains in the platform and felt happy when I placed an order on the sale page. Then I felt frustrated and upset when I was told that the deal was cancelled after my payment and waiting for transferring domain.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I have no financial impact on this purchasement. However, I spent a lot of time in searching the BIN domains in the platform and felt happy when I placed an order on the sale page. Then I felt frustrated and upset when I was told that the deal was cancelled after my payment and waiting for transferring domain.

The frustration is understandable. Thanks for clarifying that at least you didn't lose money in the process.

For those internationally, that have to deal with currency conversion, it's unclear that DAN is willing to pay for the loss of funds related to the reversal of charges with the fake listings.

Hopefully, the verification steps will come soon, to obviate the complications of this uncorrected issue. Buyers like you deserve to be able to confidently buy a domain in any marketplace without having to worry about the ability for it to be delivered.

 

[biggie]

Buyers like you deserve to be able to confidently buy a domain in any marketplace without having to worry about the ability for it to be delivered.

Hi

on the other side of that coin:

then sellers would also deserve the same confidence, that a buyer will successfully complete the transaction, when they hit the BIN button and/or agree to a negotiated price.
furthermore, the seller shouldn't have to worry about any delays on part of buyer confirming receipt of domain, so that the seller can get paid in timely manner.

in a perfect world, yeah... but in domaining, just as it is in life... it's not going to happen in every instance.

and in between that coin:
let's say they shut dan down, like uni, and you just have afternic.
now what you gonna do?

imo...

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Hi

on the other side of that coin:

then sellers would also deserve the same confidence, that a buyer will successfully complete the transaction, when they hit the BIN button and/or agree to a negotiated price.

Absolutely. And marketplaces do in general appear to have strict policies of penalizing and even banning buyers that fail to go through with a purchase.

furthermore, the seller shouldn't have to worry about any delays on part of buyer confirming receipt of domain, so that the seller can get paid in timely manner.

Sure, that's frustrating.

and in between that coin:
let's say they shut dan down, like uni, and you just have afternic.
now what you gonna do?

Well, the issue here is removing the listings from the DAN platform that are unregistered domains, old listings that are no longer accurate since the seller transferred or sold the domain, or especially intentionally, fraudulently listed domains. Having such listings are not likely an asset to DAN in the long run.

Dan has been a successful platform for many. By eliminating the listings that don't belong there, wouldn't it be great if they would then be even more successful? Wouldn't you like your legitimate domains, that you pay to renew, being seen in searches more readily?

Sadly, when a would-be buyer gets burned by one of the undesirable listings, they may never return to that marketplace. So, you may lose the opportunity to have that buyer buy your legitimate domains.

 

[biggie]

Sadly, when a would-be buyer gets burned by one of the undesirable listings, they may never return to that marketplace. So, you may lose the opportunity to have that buyer buy your legitimate domains.

Hi

in this situation, i think you make more of negative possibilities, than positive ones.

when you have sales on a platform,
then the perspective may be different...simply because you have already anticipated or even accepted, the potential "faults" that could occur, as a part of doing business.

ie: previously mentioned
i had buyer come to dan to purchase, simply because they wanted a LTO,
but they initially contacted me via unireg.
they also sent an email...and stated that they saw the name on sedo as well.

the point of that,
is a buyer who wants a domain will seek more than one venue or means of contact, if necessary.

imo...