This is How I lost my Domain Name at Epik.com

[Fadi H]

Hello everyone,

I've been closing my eyes on many things that I didn't like on Epik.com Registrar. But today is the final day and I'm transferring all my domains from there for a Never comeback.

So what happened is that I had a .CO domain hosted at Epik, Which Expired on December 11th 2021. I did not renew it or transfer it as I've been busy and thought I still have time as I know that .CO domains have a 40 day grace period and that's by the registry. And during that grace period domains are transferable and renewable.

Yesterday I logged in to my account and didn't find the domain, So I clicked the blue button and the support agent said that they will look into the matter and reach back to me later.

Today I received the following response :

"Hello Fadi,

The domain expired on December 11, 2021 and the grace renewal period is 15 days which means that the last day that you have to renew your domain was on December 26, 2021. Since renewal did not take place, and someone had a backorder on your domain, the backorder was fulfilled.

We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back but you might need to provide your best offer so we can send it to our sales team.

Looking forward hearing from you. "

So I clicked back the blue button questioning about that backorder story and I got the following response :

"Thank you for patiently waiting. I have confirmed with our tech team that domain renewals of 40 day grace period is only applicable for domains without back order. You will only get 15 day grace period if there is a backorder for your domain."

But in fact if you visit Epik.com You will not find this backorder story anywhere on the site.

They referred to this link which doesn't help :

https://www.epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

I'm not satisfied with their answers at all and this is the first time I hear of this 15 day back-order story and it's not even mentioned anywhere on the site.

You can see it clearly "After the discretionary grace period the customer's domain is deleted from their account. And deleted domains may be recoverable for up to a total of 69 days after the expiration date.

Where is the 15 day backorder story?

Your opinions matter, Do you think what they did is right?

 

[Fadi H]

You're sure they sold it to a client who placed a backorder and they not just warehoused it and listed it for sale on their own Landers?

No I can't be sure of anything, But what they said is the following :


"Hello Fadi,


The domain expired on December 11, 2021 and the grace renewal period is 15 days which means that the last day that you have to renew your domain was on December 26, 2021. Since renewal did not take place, and someone had a backorder on your domain, the backorder was fulfilled.


We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back but you might need to provide your best offer so we can send it to our sales team.

Looking forward hearing from you. "

And now we have this :

Ironically this domain was an internal backorder

I think this explains a bit why everyone was suggesting me to make my best offer on the domain as the only way to possibly get or better say buy the domain back.

 

[bmugford]

This is very strange reasoning, indeed, admitting that Epik could have returned the domain at renewal cost if the OP did not engage in alleged "thuggery". Especially given the fact that Epik could have acquired DomainLiquidate.com for free had Rob and one of his goons not acted like thugs and been far more abusive than the OP is alleged to have acted. @Rob Monster “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

As for remedy, here is what we'll do. The domain backorder has been canceled. The domain is now in liquidation and anyone can bid for it:

So in summary it turns out the domain was never actually backordered. It was just warehoused by Epik, in contrary to what their support and Rob said. That is clearly misleading at best, and a direct lie at worst.

Rob has the ability to give the domain back to the OP, but decided not to because he offended him. What happened to godly qualities like forgiving, and being kind?

Instead, he decides to pretend to claw the domain back, when it reality it was just warehoused then essentially offer to sell it back to the OP while also virtue signaling about donating to charity.

Is that about right?

The warehousing part and pretending it was a backorder is shady and the second part is rather petty IMO.

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

How is it fair on the person who backordered the domain now that @Rob Monster has cancelled it and put it out to public auction?

As mentioned in second post of this thread, it seems to be pick and choose as you like

I didn't want to go over this yesterday as it's a matter with another user.

But what made me angry to go for a title like that is because when I've been communicating with the support they were pushing me to make an offer on the domain as the only solution available. And not explaining that backorder story or giving me good answers. I've already requested moderation to make some edits and change the title if possible, To keep this clean.

When Rob replied via email he said that the matter can be customized a bit, But what exactly can be customized if the domain is already sold to someone else? It can be customized if the domain is under Epik control. But if it's already sold to another user then it's totally up to them as the rightful owners of the domain.

The domain was not pending deletion, It just got expired less than 20 days ago and it's not easy for someone to spot it and place a backorder. But as of Epik, A backorder was placed and fulfilled on December 26.

Now If I'm mistaken and just didn't understand their policy, Things should stop here as the process was normal. My mistake and I just was late to renew, Right?

Rob chose to step in and take the domain from its new owner a few days after it was purchased as they claimed. Making a what's so called a "remedy" involving a donation and half of the proceeds to me so people like Daniel Owens can be impressed by the act of class and kindness. I'm not going to comment about the other user who backordered and won then lost the domain as it's not my business. But Rob doesn't own the domain, The normal process as of what the support said is that if a backorder is placed I only have 15 days to renew, And if no backorder is placed it could go up to 40 days. So now the domain should be either with its new owner as a backorder was placed and fulfilled, And if the backorder gets canceled the domain should be in the grace period.

Rob renews the domain, get it auctioned and decides what to do with the proceeds if a sale takes place. For what right?

Rob, I'm like bro...!!??

Last but not least, For me the domain is gone and Epik is gone. That's how the wind blew. And I'm not involved with that sale and not taking a penny, If I do it means that I'm satisfied, But to be honest my body can't handle the remedy.

Peace.

 

[branding]

And I was the first potential buyer, Haha. Even if the internal backorder wasn't mentioned by then.

Lol. And having the audacity to call this thuggery and virtue signalling by sending proceeds to a good cause.

Btw, even if a customer is a pain in the ass you should never deny them services you provide to others. Can't mix business with emotion, business 101. Or.... Turn the other cheek.... Which would hopefully mean something to the one its directed at.

 

[Fadi H]

Quick comment here:

- Our policies are published and reasonable. We do have the ability to provide extended grace periods for most TLDs -- as much as 35 days. Usually the people who need that much grace period have larger issues which is why this is handled on a consultative basis.

- Earlier today, Fadi did also reach out to me for an intervention. I replied to him, while on vacation, within an hour and was working towards giving him a remedy that also positions him to succeed at Epik. Unfortunately, he chose not to wait for my reply and then posted a misguided post with a click-bait title. Pity.

- Unfortunately, in light of the inflammatory tone of this NamePros thread, restoring the domain is not going to be an option as we don't bow down to thuggery. That said, we do routinely provide a hand up, and even a hand out, to people in distress and who engage with humility rather than entitlement.

As for remedy, here is what we'll do. The domain backorder has been canceled. The domain is now in liquidation and anyone can bid for it:

http://nameliquidate.com/cashout.co

Half of the proceeds will go to Fadi. The other half will go to support orphans in Pakistan:

https://www.lifefunder.com/orphans

This is part of a larger empowerment project we have been incubating called Orphans.com. We are helping the orphanage to buy a new building.

Wow, Goodluck with the sale!

Just a quick reply to the points stated here and to clarify my position a bit more.

It's true that I forwarded the email that I received from Epik Support which I shared above to Rob. I questioned about the matter and was having a chat with their support at the same time.

To be honest I didn't accept the fact that Epik gave the domain to someone else, That unclear backorder process that cannot be found anywhere on the site or terms of service and the live chat support suggesting me to Make an offer on the domain as a "resolution" to what happened.

This resulted in a bit of anger especially as the support failed to explain the unclear backorder process. That's why I made the title like that and I stand back on that statement and apologize.

I still stand on my points and don't like what happened and still not finding good answers. If that process is clarified, I think it's good for the community as we can see some people here not happy with the policy and probably no one knew about this backorder process earlier than today.

I also think that revealing the domain in question and deciding what to do with it isn't really a remedy and it doesn't make you a hero. But I just think and the ball is in your court.

Peace.

 

[johnn]

Ironically this domain was an internal backorder - a domain that was marked to not drop.

If Fadi had been patient and replied in a civil way, he would have gotten the domain back for the cost of the renewal. However, in light of Fadi's approach that was not an option as it rewards thuggery. As I saw it, the charity auction was the next best alternative.

Translation:
If Fadi was nice to me I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

 

[branding]

No I can't be sure of anything, But what they said is the following :


"Hello Fadi,


The domain expired on December 11, 2021 and the grace renewal period is 15 days which means that the last day that you have to renew your domain was on December 26, 2021. Since renewal did not take place, and someone had a backorder on your domain, the backorder was fulfilled.


We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back but you might need to provide your best offer so we can send it to our sales team.

Looking forward hearing from you. "

And now we have this :


I think this explains a bit why everyone was suggesting me to make my best offer on the domain as the only way to possibly get or better say buy the domain back.

Thanks. That sounds a lot to me like they're blatantly lying. They warehoused the domain and are trying to sell it back to you. No third party involved.

 

[branding]

Trust me I was already looking this up. You just went fast on this. But I appreciate your input.

Thanks. Want to clarify, by internal backorder they mean they take possession of the domains and try to sell it themselves. They shouldn't make mention of there being a backorder at all as that's merely trying to obfuscate the facts.

I find it strange they won't just be transparent about that, that's why I engaged/looked into it.

 

[bmugford]

Thanks. That sounds a lot to me like they're blatantly lying. They warehoused the domain and are trying to sell it back to you. No third party involved.

It sure sounds like that to me as well. The domain was warehoused, no 3rd party backorder involved.

Brad

 

[branding]

I've saved a screen btw in case they want to feed us more BS.

 

[Fadi H]

Translation:
If Fadi was nice I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

They were not nice to me in first place. They call themselves legendary support but you can clearly see the how they handled this, Claiming that the domain was backordered by someone and trying to sell it to me and pushing me to make my "best offer" as the solution.

Here's an example of what I've been told :

"We may be able to get in contact with the new owner to help you get your domain back"

Translation : We may be able to get in contact with ourselves as we are the new owners of the domain and help you buy the domain from us.

When you face a mess like this, And you don't find answers, It's natural to be angry and your reaction may not be nicer than the whole mess they did. I still apologized and removed what was not looking nice.

And yes, It's true that I wasn't patient with Rob, But Rob should be Epik and Epik should be Rob right?

Or Epik creates the mess then Rob resolves it to show up as a hero? Or it's because he found out that I'm a domain investor? As I was asked about how many domains I own across all registrars.

Then this :

The domain backorder has been canceled.

Then this :

Ironically this domain was an internal backorder

Someone please help me with a definition of a "backorder".

In accordance to the structure of events since the start of this issue and until this moment, I assume that it's their process with the domains they like, They just warehouse them and put them for sale if they are not renewed within their 15-day grace period, I think this explains the "most cases" they pointed in their TOS. In case of a domain they don't like they will place it back on your account and let you renew it. As with our guy here :

I've expirienced the same thing. I didn't know the grace period only 15 days. But fortunately no one backorder my domain.
Then the CS help me renew my domain

So it's a WIN-WIN, Either a domain name or a renewal.

And the "Backorder" story seems like a nice cover to the whole story as people most likely won't like the fact of them taking the domains and selling them.

 

[Fadi H]

I love these thread title
Epik, Godaddy, etc... stole my name
In fact 99.9 % of the time they messes themself up and blame on other people.

These type of titles should not be allowed here because no one stole your name.

For you and everyone else commenting about the title, I've already clarified my position and admitted the mistake and requested to change the title. Thanks for your comment.

 

[bmugford]

I didn't want to go over this yesterday as it's a matter with another user.

But what made me angry to go for a title like that is because when I've been communicating with the support they were pushing me to make an offer on the domain as the only solution available. And not explaining that backorder story or giving me good answers. I've already requested moderation to make some edits and change the title if possible, To keep this clean.

When Rob replied via email he said that the matter can be customized a bit, But what exactly can be customized if the domain is already sold to someone else? It can be customized if the domain is under Epik control. But if it's already sold to another user then it's totally up to them as the rightful owners of the domain.

The domain was not pending deletion, It just got expired less than 20 days ago and it's not easy for someone to spot it and place a backorder. But as of Epik, A backorder was placed and fulfilled on December 26.

Now If I'm mistaken and just didn't understand their policy, Things should stop here as the process was normal. My mistake and I just was late to renew, Right?

Rob chose to step in and take the domain from its new owner a few days after it was purchased as they claimed. Making a what's so called a "remedy" involving a donation and half of the proceeds to me so people like Daniel Owens can be impressed by the act of class and kindness. I'm not going to comment about the other user who backordered and won then lost the domain as it's not my business. But Rob doesn't own the domain, The normal process as of what the support said is that if a backorder is placed I only have 15 days to renew, And if no backorder is placed it could go up to 40 days. So now the domain should be either with its new owner as a backorder was placed and fulfilled, And if the backorder gets canceled the domain should be in the grace period.

Rob renews the domain, get it auctioned and decides what to do with the proceeds if a sale takes place. For what right?

Rob, I'm like bro...!!??

Last but not least, For me the domain is gone and Epik is gone. That's how the wind blew. And I'm not involved with that sale and not taking a penny, If I do it means that I'm satisfied, But to be honest my body can't handle the remedy.

Peace.

To me this creates a bigger issue than the original issue.

The (15) day grace period might be short, but at least Epik can point to their TOS.

According to Epik support, the domain was backordered and fulfilled -

Hello Fadi,

The domain expired on December 11, 2021 and the grace renewal period is 15 days which means that the last day that you have to renew your domain was on December 26, 2021. Since renewal did not take place, and someone had a backorder on your domain, the backorder was fulfilled...

So then what business does Rob have clawing back this domain from a party that followed the rules?

None in my view. I would be far more concerned with that than the original issue as it is seems arbitrary and unfair. It creates a whole host of potential ownership issues if this is possible.

Brad

 

[branding]

I was already looking up Domain IQ. But you can't talk about something if you are not sure. And now we have the internal backorder.

Yes we can. With the publicly available whois change records they cannot have fulfilled any backorder after the domain expired. It's not rocket science and they know it.

 

[DigiNames]

You let your domain expire. They have a 15-day grace period and you failed to renew the domain within that time.

For you to say that they “stole” your domain name just isn’t true. I understand that it sucks to lose your name, but you are responsible for renewing your own domains and if you don’t do that you can’t really blame anyone but yourself.

 

[Daniel Owens]

Yes I didn't renew in time and they have a 15-day grace period that's clear. But what comes after the grace period? The domain gets deleted from my account and still under Epik control and can be recoverable for a higher fee. Nothing mentioned about someone could backorder and win the domain after 15 days of expiration. If you can see it anywhere on Epik, Show me.

I assume you were flat broke and couldn't afford to renew it. You might have been able to find a register that would let you transfer-in super cheap but you would probably need to get the auth. code before expiry. This should serve as a lesson learned to put renewal on a credit card and pay it off the next month when you get cash again. Just my thoughts.

 

[johnn]

I love these thread title
Epik, Godaddy, etc... stole my name
In fact 99.9 % of the time they messes themself up and blame on other people.

These type of titles should not be allowed here because no one stole your name.

 

[branding]

I may want to add, they've got their fine print covered. It's their right, we all deal with shady registrars at times, it's part of this business.

Point is, when you do, never let your domains expire. There are registrars allowing no grace period at all.

Edit: and obviously the poor customer service. You reached out and and were given a BS story.

The domain isn't on NL, still accepting offers to be accepted by the owner, Epik.

 

[DN Playbook]

If Fadi had been patient and replied in a civil way, he would have gotten the domain back for the cost of the renewal. However, in light of Fadi's approach that was not an option as it rewards thuggery. As I saw it, the charity auction was the next best alternative.

Translation:
If Fadi was nice to me I would let him renew the domain but since he is not nice I put the name in auction.
And this is how I run my business. Be nice with me.

This is very strange reasoning, indeed, admitting that Epik could have returned the domain at renewal cost if the OP did not engage in alleged "thuggery". Especially given the fact that Epik could have acquired DomainLiquidate.com for free had Rob and one of his goons not acted like thugs and been far more abusive than the OP is alleged to have acted. @Rob Monster “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

 

[Daniel Owens]

your response was out of context to my response . it should be obvious that transferring domains between registrars means you can save a dollar or two on .com domains - not sure about .co

Yeah, but the fry was not. I mean if you fry-out a domain to gaining register then you might get it for a buck or two. Save auth. code to computer transfer-out sooner. Now domain owner is new frier so it's too late for him to eat the domain back.

 

[bmugford]

I am not really a fan of the short 15 day grace period, but that apparently is in their TOS.

To say they "stole" your domain though, is hyperbolic IMO.

Brad

 

[branding]

I always try to clean my intention to people, But I also had different possibilities and scenarios running through my mind. The thing is that you can't talk about everything when details are not enough.

Thanks for your input.

Well, just look at the historical Whois changes. That should give you an idea about the fictional backorder.

They warehoused it. 100%.

 

[FolioTeam]

You didn't go over the thread else you'd have found your answer.

The support already confirmed that if a backorder is placed, That's 15 days. And if not, Then it can go up to 40 days.

I actually went through the thread. Just pointing out to people who might be unaware that different extensions have different expiry process. See @DirkS comment for more clarification.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

domains may be recoverable for up to a total of 69 days after the expiration date.

I think the term I bolded is important. It is not that all TLDs can be recovered that long, I think.