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What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

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I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Agree or disagree with @Rob Monster personal views... when it comes to registrars... you have to be crazy to not want him DEFENDING you as a customer.

Rather than sell you out for convenience, i.e. GoDaddy or any other registrar there... who is trying to be "PC"... Epik is certainly not going to bow down to pessure regarding your domains.

And in all reality... in 2 weeks this will be forgotten and people will discuss the registrar and the benefits.
 
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I'm Epik's Director of Operations. Prior to taking that position in April 2017, I worked for 6 years as a full time domain investor, wrote approximately 150 articles at DNW, and was one of the most active commentators on every other domain blog: Joseph Peterson, in case my "Slanted" username is unfamiliar. Some of you know me, and I'm no stranger to NamePros.

During the past 2 years, I've stayed busy with projects and customers at Epik. As a result, I have disappeared from public discussions. In fact, my personal inbox has 6,477 unread emails with the label "DN Blogs". I pay no attention to social media. My only Facebook or Twitter accounts are unused place holders.

Monday I went to work and discovered that my boss, Rob Monster – and by extension Epik – are embroiled in a scandal as a result of tweets Rob had made via his personal Twitter account. That would be a "face-palm" moment, except that the nature of the controversy is much too serious to be treated with levity. In short, it's not something we can wish away with an emoticon. Dismissing this as a "tweet" gone awry minimizes Rob's action, which was to publish a link to footage of a massacre (after Twitter had banned that footage) and suggest that the footage wasn't real.

Mondays are always busy. Between scheduled meetings with outside parties, reviewing development projects, and assisting customers, I spoke privately to Rob about the incident, as well as to several of my coworkers, and to peers in the domain industry. It was midnight before I could survey the PR damage in blogs and forums.

Since I found this scandal being discussed at Shane Cultra's blog, I posted a response there. For various reasons, my post was not published until today (Wednesday). A second post by me remains in the moderation queue there. Realizing that many NamePros members will comment in this forum without clicking a link to read what I have written elsewhere, for convenience I will copy the text of those 2 posts here in this NamePros thread.

[more to follow]
 
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.......................................................................................................................................................

And here is comment #2:

.......................................................................................................................................................

@brad Mugford,

"Rob Monster posted a link to the shooter’s video and also implied it was a hoax."

Correct.

"I don’t think there is really any defense for that. I find this behavior reprehensible."

Personally I was appalled. Of course, it's terrible for the Epik brand and embarrassing for the people connected with Epik. Beyond that, it is horribly insensitive to the muslim community, including Epik's own muslim employees.

Is there a defense for it? Listen, I'm not going to waste my breath defending conspiracy theories I don't believe. But it's fair to point out that Rob also believes the 9/11 massacre was a hoax or inside job. Ditto the moon landing. About school shootings I haven't asked. Maybe those too.

Because white supremacist violence is on the rise, that has led Rob to call racist massacres hoaxes. But he is at least consistent. Nobody would call him a white supremacist for saying that 9/11 wasn't really perpetrated by islamic terrorists or for saying that a school shooting involved actors or for saying that Neil Armstrong didn't really set foot on lunar soil.

There is no defense that I would offer for Rob's opinion. Much less will I defend a CEO's insensitive blunder in sharing that opinion while mentioning his own company's brand.

Joseph, I appreciate you trying to clear this up but I am unmoved.

I mean Bob Parsons (GoDaddy CEO) got endless shit for killing an elephant. I don't have much sympathy for someone who decides to share a video of people getting massacred then implying it was a hoax.

I am sorry but the CEO of a company should really know better. It obviously reflects poorly on the brand.

If the CEO of a major company had done this on their personal account they would no doubt be immediately terminated by the board. "Free Speech" does not mean freedom from consequences when it comes to companies, groups, organizations, etc.

If you want to say and do offensive things under the guise of "free speech" then don't be surprised when people are offended by it, and don't be surprised when you lose business because of it.

Brad
 
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So what action will Epik take?

Here is where I net out on all of this as CEO of Epik and "public figure" whose opinions are apparently being watched more closely than I realized.

First, some absolute statements:

- Epik and I personally condemn violence and hate.

- Epik and I personally support lawful application of civil liberties.

- Epik and I personally believes that censorship should be tempered.

That being said, here is where the gray areas start:

- There are bad actors in any major forum. In most cases, their actions would be protected under US Law. If a site decides to stand for lawful free speech, it will have a higher concentration of content that hurts some people's feelings or runs counter to prescribed narratives.

- Specific to Gab, they have a ToS which they enforce. Problem posts are reported to [email protected] and dealt with there. In particular, threats of imminent targeted violence and DOXing are quickly removed, probably even faster than Twitter deals with them.

- When users violate ToS at sites like Gab and BitChute, they are removed. I have seen it many times, and am certain that it is happening. They suffer backlash in their communities which is why you have sites like 8Chan pop up, because 4Chan booted them. Incidentally, neither "Chan" is a client of Epik.

- In response to concentration of media, alternative news has filled the gap through a sort of citizen journalism. As a direct result, one great challenge is Fake News. Unfortunately, fake news cuts both ways, e.g. Covington Catholic. We are all being propagandized. As such, we must choose to discern.

- Specific to NZ, there was a horrific incident. That incident led to immediate changes in public policy. I questioned the censorship standard and the maniacal effort to enforce it globally. In that area I crossed a line and should not have done that. Epik is a utility and we should work to stay in our lane.

So what will Epik do? Here is what I propose, subject to input and refinement:

- We have [email protected]. If there is objectionable content where someone wants assistance with bringing it to the attention to site admins, please send it there, and we'll get it to the right people. We do this already but most people don't know about it.

- We will continue to cooperate with law enforcement. As free speech sites grow in number and grow in quantity, it is conceivable that more of them will come to Epik. The recent addition of BitMitigate and the growth of Anonymize as VPN provider make Epik the obvious choice as technology partner.

- The online personas called #Epik, #Anonymize and #BitMitigate will restrict their engagement to technical matters and not engage in commentary that could be construed as being inflammatory. Our function is to be a utility. We provide technology. It is battle-tested and open to all who engage lawfully.

- Epik will conduct a review of its client practices relative to its terms of service and determine what interventions are needed. It is conceivable that some clients will need to be dropped. This process will be orderly and will not be determined by coercion, brigading or other forms of mob rule.

- Epik will continue to be engaged in the dialog about the future of the internet. We will continue to advocate for lawful free speech and privacy, tempered with civility and accountability.

My hope is that a balanced approach to censorship and privacy will serve to both sustain and enlarge the internet name industry as we know it while preventing further acceleration of human tragedy such as the one that we saw happen in ChristChurch this month.
 
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You said earlier Rob is not Epik but he makes no effort to dissociate the two on his profile.

Rob has been the owner and CEO of Epik for many years. Unlike other CEOs, Rob actively engages with individual customers, answering support tickets, bailing them out with domain-backed loans, even editing their DNS records over the phone. And he's a workaholic (I mean that in a good way) who is always "ON". Except when Rob's asleep, there is almost no moment when he might not respond to someone who has a question for Epik.

So, you're right: Rob hasn't been in the habit of distinguishing between Epik and himself as an individual 100% of the time. In public, he has just said what he thinks and sometimes mentioned his company and its services, which are often directed toward issues he cares about – like privacy or censorship.

For many years, this identification of Rob = Epik has helped the brand. Many customers at Epik choose the company primarily because of positive experiences they've had with Rob. Indeed, many in this thread have said so. Rob never built a wall between Epik and his individual identity.

Blurring the lines between Rob / Epik caused a problem finally. Please give Rob a chance to adjust policies and habits. It's only fair. Within the past week, Rob has made a number of changes:
  • Rob closed his individual Twitter account. That's based on the risk of his individual opinions being mistaken for Epik positions (which caused the recent scandal).
  • Epik social media accounts at Twitter and Facebook are now made via a designated Epik employee in all cases and not by Rob directly, as sometimes was the case. This provides a filter and allows for the post to reflect more team consensus – which is the real Epik. It also provides an opportunity for basic editing and fact-checking.
  • Within this thread, I suggested that Rob should change the Gab username from "Epik" to something reflecting him as an individual. And his comment today suggests that will happen.
  • Here at NamePros, Rob changed his avatar / image so that it no longer reflects the Epik logo. People still recognize Rob as Epik's CEO. But this emphasizes that posts by Rob about religion or politics are not Epik positions as such.
Some CEOs delegate public comments to underlings as much as possible. But Rob has been in the habit of speaking directly to people in forums, emails, and social media. That can backfire. In some cases, it helps to have an extra layer of teamwork in a company's public statements on blogs, in Twitter or Facebook, or forums. If there is no such layering, then there may not be any consensus within the organization. And then arguably it makes sense to emphasize that each person is speaking as an individual, except when emphasizing that they are speaking about official policy. That's the case here in NamePros with Rob's posts.

Rob may be the CEO of a company, but he deserves some right to have his own opinions and express them as an individual. Nobody needs to agree with his opinions. But we should acknowledge that Rob says things as Rob. He isn't always a mouthpiece of Epik's official positions 24/7. If Rob says he enjoyed the last movie he saw, nobody will interpret that film review as a statement by Epik. By the same token, if Rob expresses a political view using the "Epik" username, it doesn't necessarily reflect Epik's position.

Rob began engaging with people at Gab.com in connection with the domain being transferred to Epik from GoDaddy, which refused to service it any longer in response to public pressure after a crime was committed by 1 of Gab’s members. So when Rob began commenting on Gab, he would have been representing Epik. To the extent that Rob began engaging with Gab members about politics, that was Rob acting as a private citizen, expressing his personal opinions. It’s easy to understand why, under the circumstances, the username began as “Epik” and how Rob might have continued using it in a personal capacity without realizing that it would be helpful to create a separate personal account.

In the post above, Rob outlined a number of proposed changes in Epik’s practices. I think he deserves some credit for that. Among other things:

The online personas called #Epik, #Anonymize and #BitMitigate will restrict their engagement to technical matters and not engage in commentary that could be construed as being inflammatory.

So Epik usernames will be limited to official Epik business. That's progress. If I understand that correctly, then Rob’s personal posts on Gab would henceforward be made under a username not bearing the Epik brand.

This won’t address all issues. But it cannot be said that Rob “makes no effort to dissociate” between Epik and Rob Monster. He is making that effort.

For years, Rob relied on people to understand that his comments reflect individual opinions (like christianity) and to judge Epik as Epik, based on the quality of its services. Evidently, the general public gets Rob and Epik mixed up sometimes. To some extent, I get it. But when this scandal arose, some people were calling for a boycott of Epik based on a political opinion Rob expressed in his own personal Twitter account. And I know the general public is smart enough to realize there is a distinction between Rob and Epik in such a situation. I agree that more differentiation was needed. Rob and Epik are working on that.
 
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@Dotword,

A web host has a much more direct connection to content than a registrar does. After all, they store and disseminate the actual files of the website. Regulators and the general public often confuse registrars with hosts. You'd be surprised how often Epik or any other registrar is asked to share the source files of some website that is hosted by a separate company. (Gab.com is an example of this.)

I often have to explain to attorneys or bureaucrats that a domain registrar – insofar as it is just acting as a registrar – basically has no involvement with any website at all. Registrars keep a record of whois contact information for the name itself. Registrars collect payments and process renewals, transfers, etc. They provide an interface for defining the name servers, which indicate which company controls the DNS records. And that may or may not be the registrar. If there is a website or email, then that is manged by the web host not the registrar. (Most registrars offer hosting, but many registrar customers host with a separate company.)

Basically, registrars allow the public to own domain names – nothing more. Policies for who can register what names and also how the domains must or must not be used are defined by TLD registries. And policies for domain ownership and processes generally are defined by ICANN (for gTLDs) or by ccTLD registries.

After this long preamble, what am I getting at? This:
  • Registrars have no access to content and no way to inspect content beyond what the general public has.
  • Registrars have no control of content. Files are stored by the web host, which has control and access.
Registrars can only take action with respect to content in the crudest way possible: By yanking the plug. Whether that means confiscating a domain, suspending a domain, deleting a domain, or diverting the name servers, the end result is the same binary choice. The only options available to a registrar are:

(A) leave the cord plugged in (domain name still maps to web host);
(B) disconnect the cord (domain name cannot reach web host).

Yes, a registrar can use this OFF/ON power as an ultimatum, coercing a registrant to change the content they are hosting with a separate company. But is this the ideal way to for online content to be adjusted or policed?

Consider that many registrars are small companies. That means the person who is evaluating the content and deciding whether to unplug the metaphorical TV that someone else is watching is acting in a part-time capacity to police content, often in a rush, generally with no clear policy and zero training, and absolutely no relevant experience in determining what is or isn't legal. Do we want that person censoring the web?

It's also true that many registrars are spineless and will cave instantly to pressure. Some will say this is a good thing because they're envisioning public outrage over extremely offensive or dangerous content. But outraged crowds aren't always right. And the pressure isn't always coming from a crowd of representative normal people. Sometimes it comes from lobbyists. For example, there are certain groups that represent the interests of pharmaceutical trademarks. They bully registrars into suspending or deleting domains without due process for the registrant. And many registrars comply. Registrars that direct these lobbyists to the UDRP (which is what ICANN created to deal with TM disputes) are defamed in public as "bad actors" or "rogue registrars". Do we want registrars to pull the plug on websites – when, remember, the registrar isn't providing the website at all – just because someone threatens to say negative things about the registrar? Shouldn't there be a process to protect the registrant? Shouldn't someone independent make the judgment call?

It's crucial to understand that a registrar is an outsider looking at whatever content is publicly visible. Some other company hosts that content. Some other person created that content. A registrar may not have enough access to the content to see whether abuse has occurred or even what the content really is or was. For example, the content may exist behind a login. Or the content may have been interrupted by the web host or deleted by the webmaster. Often in abuse cases, a registrar is asked to evaluate content it can't even see – relying entirely on a complainant's description of the content.

Elsewhere, I described a case involving a website that endorsed rape. Epik deleted the domain right away. But we were never able to see ANY of the alleged content. Anyone seriously interested in how a registrar polices content can read my summary of that case:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...er-or-suspension.1107245/page-24#post-7170517

Web hosts have more access to and control over web content than anybody else except the webmaster. So it is logical to focus on web hosts when evaluating content, even if web hosts don't necessarily have the relevant expertise or authority for judging that content's legality.

Also, a web host has the ability to manipulate a website or email account in a more selective or surgical way. They can remove a single offending page without taking the whole website down. They can temporarily block a specific email address from sending without blocking other addresses from sending or annihilating all inboxes. Thus a web host is the most relevant partner for investigating abuse AND enforcing abuse. Yet that still doesn't mean the web host is qualified to judge abuse. They may do so, based on their own policies. But nothing guarantees that they will do so competently or fairly.

Let me add that a registrar and web host are not the only players in the domain supply chain that have this ON/OFF power to pull the plug on a website or email.
  1. ICANN itself is completely neutral, refusing to police domain usage directly. ICANN thereby fosters online free speech.
  2. UDRP forums, designated by ICANN, will adjudicate trademark disputes involving domains, . Unlike some arbitrary registrar employee, the panelists are experts who can devote their full attention to the evidence and (ideally) make an impartial decision. Though there are abuses that need reform, the UDRP does help eliminate trademark infringement, phishing, and other abuses.
  3. TLD registries and back-end operators can suspend any domain, without relying on any information or action from the registrar. They can do this because they are upstream of the registrar in the supply chain. The registry's cable connects to the registrar's cable, which plugs into the host. So the registry can unplug entirely on their own.
Registries suspend domains on their own all the time. ccTLD registries do this. Often they do it because of residency requirements in the country in question. But at Epik, I've also seen ccTLDs enforce their own policies about trademarks or abuse or whois formatting without any adjudication at all. And this has occurred in response to pressure from complainants.

gTLDs and sTLDs often have special policies about who can register domains. So it's not uncommon for them to suspend domains based on the registrant's lack of qualifications, lack of response, or lack of demonstrated usage in the relevant field. Beyond that, some of these registries also have policies about abuse such as phishing and malware distribution. And a few of them police these problems actively, causing domains to be suspended in the background in bulk. Registrars get periodic summaries of domains that the registry has chosen to suspend or delete. In some cases, neither the registrar nor the registrant gets any notification; and we piece together the facts about a secret registry suspension only when the registrant asks, "Where did my domain / website go?"

It has always struck me as strange that – in the Gab.com scandal – people focused entirely on the registrars, GoDaddy and Epik. Nobody that I'm aware of mentioned Verisign. I gather that Verisign stayed out of the question of whether Gab.com should be suspended or censored. In doing so, Verisign took a stance of complete neutrality or agnosticism, which is basically supportive of free speech.

Yet nobody attacked Verisign for not pulling the plug on Gab.com. Their ability to review Gab's content is exactly the same as a domain registrar's ability to review Gab's content. Both would need to assign someone to spend time reading Gab member's posts. Also, Verisign's ability to pull the plug on the domain registration is basically just like a registrar's ability to do so. Either at the registry level or at the registrar level, the connection to the web host could be severed. But the important difference is that a registry decision would be absolutely conclusive. When a registry suspends a domain, no registrar can offer it.

The general public has no understanding of what a TLD registry is. Because registrars interact with customers, and GoDaddy runs Super Bowl commercials, the general public became fixated on the registrar as the entity that MUST pull the plug on the racist TV that the racists were watching. But anybody with an ounce of experience knows that a domain that is suspended at 1 registrar will simply be transferred to another registrar.

It surprises me that the domain industry went along with this view that the registrar is primarily responsible for policing and censoring content. Domainers should know that a web host is more directly involved in content than a registrar is. Furthermore, domainers should recognize that Verisign could have suspended Gab.com totally.

Who has the responsibility to police content? I've written earlier that I think responsibility should fall (whenever possible) on the stakeholders in the content: the site owner, the managers, the board of directors, the webmaster, the moderators, the writers or editors, the forum members, etc. At the same time, monitoring for illegal activity is mostly crowdsourced. Just like law enforcement agencies, registrars, registries, and web hosts rely on someone to report abuse. The questions then become:
  • Who is competent to review the content?
  • Who can adjudicate impartially?
  • Who has authority, based on TOS or the law, to take action?
  • What action should be taken?
In some cases, a registrar or a web host can make a quick judgment call on abuse and take action themselves. Examples include phishing, spam, malware distribution, child pornography. Provided there is sufficient evidence to see what is going on, with egregious cases in those areas, nobody needs to wait for a court order to decide if such things are legal.

But policing individual posts by individual members in a forum that has its own staff? Is that a registrar's role? Should Dynadot be policing NamePros posts and delivering an ultimatum based on its crude ON/OFF power to pull the plug on NamePros.com entirely? Few of you would say yes. The position of Epik, as a domain registrar, to a website like Gab.com is precisely the same as Dynadot's obligation with respect to NamePros.


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I'm not a lawyer. When Epik receives abuse allegations, we investigate the evidence. Usually the nature of the abuse gives us a clear sense of the action Epik would take against the domain / customer. Since we would be taking action to stop the abuse, that's that. When in doubt about our responsibility to act, we investigate the legal requirements. It's impossible to give a general answer because the range of possible abuse (and the particular circumstances) is quite large.

But it's important to emphasize that registrars don't actively monitor or police web content. That isn't our role. And it would be infeasible, practically speaking. The ratio of domains to employees at a registrar would be something like 50,000 or 100,000. How is a registrar employee (who already has a full time job) supposed to monitor the online content for so many domains? The content might change day to day. Or it might be quite vast – as is the case with an online forum or a news site. Some content might be hidden behind logins or exchanged invisibly as email messages sent to others.

Actively monitoring online content would thus be impossible for a registrar or even a web host. Our responsibility to police usage depends, first and foremost, on allegations made by some external party. ICANN requires that registrars maintain a designated contact for reporting abuse. ICANN obligates all registrars to display that contact in particular ways and to respond. Aside from ICANN's requirements, each registrar exists asa corporation in its own jurisdiction, which has its own requirements. And overseas jurisdictions sometimes assert their own regulatory claims. The worldwide web has worldwide complications.

#2
You can read the case study I mentioned above to see how Epik policed domain usage in 1 case.

#3
I have no idea if Gab or any other website on the web contains illegal content. It has never been my role nor my hobby to go looking. In my whole life, I think I looked at the Gab.com website only once. What I happened to see there disgusted me, and I was not inspired to keep coming back.

If a law enforcement agency believes there is illegal content on a website, they can contact any domain registrar to indicate the action or information they would need. Registrars comply with such requests. Indeed, Epik received a subpoena related to Gab almost immediately after the domain transferred to Epik. As usual, the subpoena seemed to imagine that Epik was the web host. Since we were not, there was little information to give. But we gave it. I assume they sent a similar subpoena to GoDaddy, which had been the registrar for a much longer period, and to the web host. That was last Fall, and I've heard nothing since.

A registrar complies with official determinations. When a UDRP is filed, we supply the UDRP forum with unmasked whois contact details and other domain information, as required by ICANN. We also apply a mandatory lock on the domain that prevents whois updates or transfer. And once the UDRP case is decided in the complainant's favor, the domain is delivered to the complainant or (less commonly) deleted. That depends on their preference.

UDRP cases are only disputes about trademarks. They're generally not as gravely serious as phishing or child pornography or spam or any other kind of abuse or illegal activity. Since a registrar like Epik complies fully with a UDRP complaint, divulging information and ultimately reassigning the domain according to the received decision, you can imagine that Epik would comply every bit as much with investigators into more serious questions of illegality.

What is legal or not has always been a question for legislators (who write the laws), police (who enforce the laws), and courts (who adjudicate the laws). Let's not forget that. Registrars, like all other companies, comply with those laws. But registrars don't have any special responsibility – let alone expertise or authority – to decide what is legal. Registrars could act as judge / jury / executioner, and allow some part-time employee without training or full access to content to pull the plug on websites and email accounts. But should we expect registrars to do that?

Wouldn't the web be more reliable and more fair if registrars endeavored to remain as neutral as Verisign did or as ICANN did? Laws are still enforceable. Those neutral parties cooperate. But that doesn't mean they should be a substitute for legislators, police, and courts.[/USER]
 
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???

the subject of the thread is:
whats-going-on-with-epik-and-rob-monster
For 32 pages he has answered that for you. He has been most transparent on his views in so many subjects. Personally, I find the transparency commendable, regardless if I agree or disagree.

It is your right to disagree with his views, but to continue to berate him is non-productive for a civil discussion.

Maybe it's time to just agree to disagree?
Maybe it's time to find common ground and build on that?
 
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I happened to read a great review by Morgan Linton. I thought Morgan was really honest. GD has been a real letdown.

Im so happy Epik really cares about domain investors and steps up.

Nice to see a reliable registrar like Epik trying to serve the true needs of domain investors.
 
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Every now and then I poke my head back into this thread... And regret it immediately.
 
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this is kinda being drawn out.... i thoguht the drama with Rob was over... Epik is good, man.

It is our own NP little cancel culture following Rob around for having audacity to understand things differently and for expressing his views and believes. Good on Rob to care and for always having the patience to engage and explain. Most approachable and open CEO.
 
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if indeed you have evidence that he is deliberately saying the video is a hoax while actually knowing it's not, then I'd be the first to stand with you against him.
Read a little more, write a little less? :laugh:
 
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But to him and others it's "create a safe haven for freedom of speech"

Freedom of speech doesn't and should never mean "anything goes".

Freedom of speech means the government won't go after you for what you say - with certain limits. But it doesn't mean companies have to respect Freedom of Speech. (example, GoDaddys right to kick ppl off their platform).

So, I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-fede...ational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does

Freedom of speech includes the right:
  • Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
    West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
  • Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).
    Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
  • To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages.
    Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
  • To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns.
    Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
  • To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions).
    Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
  • To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest).
    Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
Freedom of speech does not include the right:
  • To incite actions that would harm others (e.g., “Shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
    Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
  • To make or distribute obscene materials.
    Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).
  • To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
    United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).
  • To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration.
    Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).
  • Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
    Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).
  • Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
    Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).

http://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate

"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. To be clear, the First Amendment does not protect behavior that crosses the line into targeted harassment or threats, or that creates a pervasively hostile environment. But merely offensive or bigoted speech does not rise to that level, and determining when conduct crosses that line is a legal question that requires examination on a case-by-case basis."
 
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Let me make 1 more point. Rob's comment created a scandal for Epik. So I have asked him not to make any more public comments about that issue for awhile. That includes here in NamePros.

I'm sure that Rob would rather engage with people and defend himself. That's his personality. Unlike other registrars, Epik's CEO responds to customers personally about issues large and small.

Some of you will scoff: "Right, Joseph is trying to keep Rob Monster and his views out of sight until this all blows over." Maybe.

But here's what you don't know, folks. Rob agreed to allow Gab.com to be transferred to Epik on the grounds that registrars should support free speech and fight de-platforming efforts. I wholeheartedly agree with that. When Rob did that, he made the decision to be the public voice of Epik regarding why. I had volunteered to explain the decision, since my own politics are exactly the opposite of the alt right. But Rob, as CEO, decided he would do it.

When Rob did that, he was immediately smeared in public as being antisemitic. Months later, I learned that Rob's neighborhood had been leafletted by activists condemning him as a Nazi. They harassed his wife in her workplace. The mainstream media published more than 1 hit piece, giving accounts of Rob's decision whose tone was full of innuendo or condemnation – far from the journalistic integrity that I expected. Instead of describing Rob as a "christian", they used the pejorative "Bible-thumping" for example.

Given that experience of being vilified by the mainstream press, being harassed and slandered where he lives, is it really that surprising that Rob was appreciative of the support he received from Gab members? They were evidently the only community that agreed with the free-speech decision he had taken. Rob is a conservative. And, as any American knows, conservatives already distrust the so-called "mainstream media". Having found some common ground with Gab members regarding free speech and perhaps sharing some other conservative political views, it is not hard to understand how Rob's rhetoric became more extreme during the months since. He had been driven into an echo chamber by the mainstream press and by left-wing activists – people who should have more respect for freedom of speech.

I've never paid attention to Rob's tweets or Epik's or anybody's tweets. But it is my hunch that Rob's Twitter activity became more overtly political and controversial since August or September, which is when the media began demonizing him. To some extent it is a defensive reaction – to justify oneself after being persecuted. And, yes, Rob was persecuted. Rob is not a victim in this current scandal about the New Zealand massacre. But Rob was, in fact, harassed unfairly and slandered as as result of allowing the domain Gab.com to be transferred to Epik in mid 2018. It was a courageous decision, actually. And Rob paid a price for it.

So am I trying to keep Rob out of sight until this blows over? No, I'm talking about him. But I don't want him to become a punching bag. Plenty of domainers like to throw punches. And there are rivals in this industry who play dirty tricks. Plus, there are left-wing activists who have gone out of their way to harass Rob and his family. That is not paranoia. I'm on the political left myself. It's just the truth.

Another reason I don't want Rob defending himself is this: When someone is being driven into a corner and asked to defend their honor – or especially to justify a bad decision they've already made – it's human nature to "double down" on the previous bad decision or to escalate the views expressed. That's not a fair representation of what someone believes. But there is always a small risk that can occur.

Also, the original scandal was caused by insensitivity to muslims, calling a video of a massacre a hoax. I don't want even the slightest risk of that claim being repeated, since it would only rub salt in the wound. Even if Rob realizes his mistake, he could still make another mistake. There is much less chance that I will say anything inadvertently offensive here. And I'm not Epik's CEO. So I can speak freely without risk that some phrase might be interpreted as "Epik". For example, I can insult the president of the United States at length; and nobody will assume Epik is anti-Trump. Not being the CEO, I have much more freedom of speech than Rob is allowed.

For the record, Rob deleted his own Twitter account after speaking with me and others.
 
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"Epik hires Muslims and Latinos? Let's dox the CEO and out him at his Christian community" - Said NO conservative EVER!

I will say... It is disgusting what many on the left will do.

I run a regional firearms website that is dedicated to creating a safe community for both conservatives and liberals to learn about shooting, the laws, etc. A few years into it... a few similar domain names were registered and I was Docsed. They even put up pictures of the house where they thought I lived but was a family member. Yep... a liberal who did not believe in firearms.

I firmly believe in people's rights to believe in whatever they want, as long as they are not doing it in my face, on my property.

Even as a Jew who lost plenty of family in the holocaust, I respect the right of storm front, the KKK and any other loonie Nazi to have their safe space online. As long as they are not harming people or throwing people on the cross, it is their God given right.

This is what I find disgusting, people who supposedly value freedom who only support it as long as people agree with them. The censorship coming form NZ is even worse and worse than what you would expect from China or Russia.

Censorship coming out of the Free World, a Western Utopia... which is threatening its own people with jail time for merely sharing FACTS and what happened.
 
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Epic has staff that are Muslim.
Epic has staff that are Jewish.
Epic has staff that are Christian.
Epic has staff that are coloured,
Epic has staff that are brown,
Epic has staff that white or Pale.

It's illegal in the United States to discriminate in employment on the basis of those things. Rob doesn't have the freedom to NOT hire persons on the basis of religion, ethnicity, handicap, etc..

I'm sure that Epik doesn't regularly commit murders either, but the fact that the company obeys the law has nothing to do with whether people are entitled to make their own decisions about what businesses to patronize.

Whom Rob employs, or chooses to trot out as props and human shields like Joseph here, is beside the point. He doesn't deserve some sort of humanitarian award for simply doing what the law requires. I'll bet he stops at stop signs and red lights too. Wow, what a guy!
 
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Seems Rob embraces free speech until free speech kicks him in the rear.

Maybe Rob should have said that people are entitled to their opinions and that he will EMBRRACE those that DO NOT agree with HIM instead of characterizring it as taking a beating. He should realize that his actions are interpreted by some as a slap in the face.

Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet. In today's social media world a lot of people have put their foot in their mouth and paid a high price.

Social media should have a setting in your account where it sets all posts to a 24 hour delay. This way people who make chronic mistakes can think about their posts and review them the next day before posting. I bet you a lot of them would get deleted.

Now I don't know what his intentions were and I am not defending him as much as I am saying one should be able to apologize for a mistweet and have it be taken at face value. The more you try to explain it the bigger the controversy gets and the whole Rosanne Barr incident shows you that.

Rob should apologize if he feels he did wrong but leave it at that. Opening the can further will make this thing never go away.
 
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The following are my personal thoughts on this...obviously no one has to agree with any of them.

Let me first say this clearly. The New Zealand shooting has an atrocity and my heart goes out to all of those who have had their lives impacted. As a society we should do nothing to give oxygen to hateful views such as those of the alleged shooter, and I support the Prime Ministers decision to never utter his name and efforts to make sure his manifesto and video are not distributed. I applaud her governments swift action to make the instruments of such atrocity less accessible. I am touched by those of all religions who have reached out to comfort the survivors and the families of the deceased. It was not a hoax and to say so is simply wrong, no matter who you are.

But this thread is, fundamentally, about @Rob Monster and Epik. I got to know Rob first through NPs and found him a knowledgeable and helpful and respectful presence. I was particularly impressed by the many times he reached out to help individuals who were stressed over some situation, even though there seemed little or no possible payback to Epik. I also respected that he treated those with few friends here just as though they were a VIP with a high value portfolio.

On the opening day of NamesCon I sat down with Rob for the better part of an hour in an interview that I had requested for a future article on Epik and it's CEO. For a variety of reasons, mainly my own procrastination, that article has not yet been written, and doing so now is clearly more challenging. Rob and I talked about his personal beliefs and story, Epik's development, lifetime registrations, innovative plans on the horizon and more. We did talk a bit about due process, deplatforming, and freedom of speech, but that was not the main focus I wanted.

The smart, generous and kind person I had expected from online contact was confirmed in my mind. Rob genuinely cares about people. In fact one of my strongest impressions from that hour was that Rob started it by wanting to talk about me. Rob is a caring person. I saw nothing that would suggest to me any racist opinions or hatred, in fact just the opposite. Those who have tried to paint him that way are wrong in my opinion. As @Ategy.com has related in his detailed and well expressed posts in this thread, Rob Monster even when his views are quite different, respects differences. My political views are undoubtedly very distant from his, but he seemed to genuinely respect that.

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

There are valid reasons that some need access to documents such as this. Obviously law enforcement, the court system, victim advocacy professionals, researchers in racism and anti-social violence, etc. need access to the document. For me, freedom of speech does not mean anyone who wants it should have access to those documents. While I support Epik's stand on the need for due process in deciding issues such as deplatforming, that is not to say, in my opinion, that anything anyone posts has the right to be seen by anyone.

As it turns out when all of this happened I was reading a book by Dr. Julia Shaw. Early in it she asks the reader to do the following exercise. Think about the worst thing you personally did in your life? Maybe just once you bullied someone, but it was a really weak person in a tough time in life. Maybe just once you stole something and never got caught. Maybe you cheated on your taxes. Maybe you treated a mentally fragile person harshly. Maybe it is something worse. Would you want forever for people to in a black and white way know you always and forever as the bully, cheat, thief, etc., rather than the complex person, with good traits and faults, that you are?

Now I accept that people who I respect, like Shane, feel that a line has been crossed here and have called for Epik to pay the ultimate price. While I do not agree, I understand and respect his view and those who have supported him.

I thank @Slanted for his long posts here, and at Shane's blog, for giving us a glimpse into the situations that probably helped to contribute to the unfortunate response. I disagree with those who say it is irrelevant and simply an excuse. In difficult and stressful times knowing context helps.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe how smart people can come to believe in complex and unrealistic conspiracy scenarios. To some degree I even respect their right to believe crazy things. But only up to the point where their beliefs begin to harm or threaten other people. Parents who went through heartbreak when their children were killed in their school and were then continuously hounded on social media by those who proclaim it did not happen and it was just a staged government to try to take away guns were hurt cruelly. Conspiracy theories are not without consequences. Promoting conspiracy theories hurts real people. Promoting manifestos of shooters makes the world more dangerous.

As wrong as the (apparent) post was, I think it is not fair to Epik and its employees or to Rob to let one tweet (if it was a tweet) forever characterize the man and the company. What I do feel is needed however is the following:
  • A clear statement from Epik that they apologize for the post and recognize how wrong it was.
  • A clear statement from Epik that a post like that will never happen again and procedures to make sure that it will not.
  • A clear statement that while they continue to stand up for due process and freedom of speech, that there are limits on free speech when making items available will extend pain to victims or potentially lead to increased risk. Anyone who has been charged in a violent crime should have everything they wrote archived (in case later found not guilty) in a form that cannot be generally accessed until court proceedings are complete. That would include the writings of all shooters. In other words access to this manifesto and video should immediately cease, if it is still available (I do not know).
  • Some action to mitigate the hurt that was caused by the unfortunate post.
  • Just as the head of Starbucks instituted company wide measures to correct for racial profiling, Epik should commit to measures where specialists help all employees see that free speech can not go so far as to inflict additional pain on sufferers and heighten risk. This is something many organizations, not just Epik, need to take seriously. Epik should refocus to lead responsible freedom of speech, not wide open freedom of speech.
I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday. I challenge the company to institute changes so that I can once again proudly wear the cap. Rob and Epik are smart and forward looking and focussed on providing great service and products. Rob is a kind and generous person. I want to see them recover from this. But we must all learn from this.

Bob
 
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We are sorry to see this in our industry. Our registry has donated to support the victims of this horrific tragedy, and we are gathering support from others as well.

If you'd like to join us in helping the victims, please visit http://Give.Monster to donate. Thank you for your support.

You may want to rethink your marketing strategy. You just showed the biggest domain community your lack of good taste. No matter what your opionion is on the matter being discussed, pathetic move.
 
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A couple recent deaths in the family got me thinking again about my own death and what might happen with the domain names I have (most all at Epik). A question/thought: Is it possible that Epik could have a section on what inheritors could do/should do if a domain holder were to die (at least when it concerns domains at Epik). A section that inheritors can be told in advance to search out?

Or is there a better alternative to that?

Three things:

1. We offer Forever renewals.

2. We generate domain certificates that you can put into your estate files. See attached example.

3. You can provide us instructions for authorized contacts in the event of decease. We have this for may clients, including before major hospitalizations.

It is more common than you might think.
 

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  • certificate_EPIK.COM.pdf
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Domainers seem to like Rob, so he must be doing something right. :)
 
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Grow up people - the only reason DDG is promoting "privacy" is to have their own separate niche outside Google search traffic dominance. They are already gladly feed you with ads like google do, etc. For God's sake, do you really think that DDG "cares" about your privacy?
 
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Everyone can see thing differently and for themselves. Free speech is a luxury in the world and we should not actively squander it by silencing others. Don't want to generalize too much but people need to be able to think out loud, speak and voice their opinions and ideas. It is healthier for society this way, if people are not able to talk things out the next step is violence. In the age of big tech censorship it is more important than ever to help foster free speech platforms.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

― George Orwell, 1984
 
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For anyone interested in a virtual tour, here is some more equipment that we own outright in one of our primary data centers.

Epik-router.jpg


That is 100G router there.

upload_2021-2-27_12-46-43.png



Racking AMD EPYC servers -- check that spec out sometime:

Epik-Epyc.jpg


Robust gear with talented engineering leadership.

Customers can also own their own gear in their own name, running on their own IP ranges, etc. One stop shop for digital resilience.
 
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